From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id gBWLJTnP4mMETwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 23:22:49 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id qE3MJDnP4mNsNwAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 23:22:49 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 663EE450A9 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2023 23:22:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPWLd-0001Qf-5f; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 17:21:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPWLb-0001Q4-Gi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 17:21:55 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPWLZ-0005mA-RT for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 17:21:55 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.15.228]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000103840.0000000063E2CF03.00004A70; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 15:21:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:38:33 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: ypuntot Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Org-mode Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: ypuntot , Ihor Radchenko , Org-mode References: <87lelce6iu.fsf@localhost> <407d04a9-d959-457f-a4b5-873825938fce@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <407d04a9-d959-457f-a4b5-873825938fce@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: 14 X-Spam_score: 1.4 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675808569; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XdIRwGsOf/OwdivumZlGQJRow3LihjHykg3XsTwb5sSBRDW6tObH8Rd7UI69umUrZ+qLFf /VvzGpxQ6ZYaVRQNYZMORYak4WkfVU5j9atV0PgDbgm/AMLNaDfXR03OmEBzfZxWbkJN0k ksExK2QVrYfNCi7+F90jWxGWTzKL9BpkqZgN5qhrZIcNCitdSrAytyKL9JutHFtre7Dto7 nWuVf31Glv12FsMPO1CIXYvKXb6zSyJ8Pg1et4oxXk3OlYFnvRKP9ntVq4l++HBbfd9ZXE kApM2Vs7VNg77GBQ6x6nRfpU1HN5rD9/6g9nrfEPCkpoGc/BS5Bcc0mdfWw6ww== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675808569; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=+b5YbVLYxfnNYoJBE5H5b1peWwELqtq1AiteednUoE8=; b=Ph/XkOdf7QDuvdtom3pFr3Ti7/iAFuzJ5pZbre7n2Wx5al0p14hBIT5X+WtWwu5TvFfoWH w5rAAvyyCUX0Sdb6yMNch3xRSbPNj9zs2RDc5V8iXlRikxGULTcZ8JWauqj3JAYz0DCmxb WuLRpV8TS3R7HiED0j9T03N/4n0poAFooDyOuEli6vDODt8FxkvLwouIwyrCWv1jiFb8EH bj/ve1vLXe9KzaesCW0/jtcdvAsSdfkGbhrdYHgI2wgD8o4wHv5AlUuNkzOy8/r/PwPlA/ /75Ljhwo1gLjyM3JmxuLeh1FlNAo/zZzQ1Ckxx3LRWY/Q6H7L5icZalJfojCsw== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.41 X-Spam-Score: 0.41 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 663EE450A9 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: uv55/l1vK0An * ypuntot [2023-02-05 16:03]: > For the Poll, the Jeans proposal would be to introduce manually: > [2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver] I never recommend or recommended to anybody, ever, to make timestamps manually. That is for computer to make it right. For human, that is to use calendar. Calendar must use time zone databases in background as to avoid placing invalid timestamps. > And org to convert it into: > [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,America/Vancouver] If we speak of future planning, general recommendation I have already referenced is: - to say date, time and time zone, - while knowing one cannot know if time zone will exist in future - while knowing UTC offset may be changed in future, for future timestamps for human meetings is not necessary and not absolutely possible to know UTC offset - future time zone database could tell that time zone does not exist any more. It could maybe try to derive new time zone, but it is vague, as cities and countries could change. - future time zone database can have the new updated UTC offset. - if offset is placed in future timestamps, again the future time zone database should be consulted. Change of UTC offset would not humanely change the time of meeting. If time of meeting is 12 o'clock, then it would remain same, no matter offset. But other participants would need to consult time zone database to understand the time of meeting. - for past timestamps local time plus UTC offset is good choice. p-- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/