From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6LbpK+VL7mM9ZwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:29:41 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id SDHTK+VL7mNTrgAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:29:41 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F5CD14CFD for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:29:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSgBD-0007hK-7D; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 10:28:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSgBB-0007gN-2S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 10:28:13 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSgB9-0005p9-9t for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 10:28:12 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.5.201]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000103A05.0000000063EE4B8D.00002D4F; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 08:28:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:06:53 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87lelce6iu.fsf@localhost> <87357i9959.fsf@localhost> <877cwse95m.fsf@localhost> <87lekz3qmg.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87lekz3qmg.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1676561381; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=C06h6B55j+ZcCvaqsZQDKnPk+STsT6C/rcm30y/sP0k/8DE3pbe65yex25RSiZhR5P0yuY K9rV76YV/gOzmnRUVu5Dz4b9ybF7ATgcT3JCTDfKekXm+RuaD6zxUWJIJDDQI0AYGXMkPy 6K0HH194epfNrj9/EeMj6OYR+5RK+2a2Y17iUCjZYr3W39cu+Bo18lRAbaIrBInlLzZFaQ DwLd3OB7pfcCMQaYahJPLNLuE8jWW9j/lVZ9v2DQlw7LYq5HS16inHhBXmS2A/ZgmJtzgL wh4j8R857jGGNFOyefzkiESYzuPONHxYJJE7KgA6itgQfEq8P6j0+T0h7qVqDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1676561381; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=a8knER3WjD+3seVHBHkXs9afwH1O6wBWVwQc2SL7pUc=; b=fyXKk7c4jwqj090NBr6HE0Bh5ii0LmCSyDt6gtP6tChKnoLi1x/ubNACdUdPGp1gQAl875 VGT/P9sqSq1Bo3FuR6iv+MWXpD5SkeZDlM6yHkKg3Iqu3HYaQaoZ74kLkYLNVE3DxIKH2D FVCmeaFayNYPe1p7WlrSbcokOGJIsS1H0kVz6yNyV2z6wY3k7bq9svErwAieTFiJO2UB4Q GeJ5GdG98A4WITLZs5ovnarggt9pRpxe8jojecxjeJDrxsVg6IViEf7Z1r87vxA4qwiOZl GzqwcUfPr00nyci/1wN6DCrytKpiqHlDYRugp6ULrYCH5FWM4tVreLx/TSJxFw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.38 X-Spam-Score: 2.38 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4F5CD14CFD X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: iwZKZ1VlDGTU * Ihor Radchenko [2023-02-15 18:17]: > Jean Louis writes: > > > That is not same case as Ihor, when he designated it as > > > > 2030-02-09 12:00 -0800 @UTC > > because there are no offsets @UTC time zone. > > I do not recall providing such example. May you point me to the message > where you saw me writing -0800 @UTC? Discussion on "@UTC" stated with this message by Christian: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2023-02/msg00016.html Theses were examples shown: > Examples: > 2022-11-12 12:00+02 # 12:00 UTC+2 > 2022-11-12 14:00+0230 # 14:00 UTC+2:30 > 2022-11-12 14:00-0230 # 14:00 UTC-2:30 > 2022-11-12 14:00Z # 14:00 UTC Those examples are correct but there is comment "#" which was talking about prefixes, only for understanding. Examples without comments are: > 2022-11-12 12:00+02 > 2022-11-12 14:00+0230 > 2022-11-12 14:00-0230 > 2022-11-12 14:00Z As you can see there is "Z" as designation for UTC time. When there is designation for UTC time, no prefix is mentined. You may observe that UTC prefixes in those examples are mentioned with positive or negative prefixes, but there is no designation for "UTC", as that would become confusing. Which is what I was speaking about. Where you Ihor responded with this message: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2023-02/msg00018.html > [2022-11-12 14:00 @UTC+2] > [2022-11-12 14:00 @UTC-2:30] > are also fine within the proposed format. I am not sure what did you intend to show, did you intend to tell that: - 2022-11-12 14:00 @UTC+2 means 2022-11-12 12:00 @UTC ? In my understanding "@UTC" means "UTC time zone". From above first examples it is very confusing to use "UTC" as designation plus positive or negative prefix. It is not common to represent it that way. As if there is any designation for UTC, like "UTC" or "@UTC" or "Z", then there is no prefix shown, or if any, there will be zero. And I said, representing time that way by mixing word "UTC" with prefix would be confusing, as that practically creates new type of time representation that is not ordinarily used. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/