From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id ddBgKTlR1l+zeAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 17:36:57 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id iJ/bJDlR1l8PJAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 17:36:57 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC24D940363 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 17:36:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49830 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIl-0006jz-MZ for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:36:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVEY-0000m3-Uh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:32:34 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:58887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVEX-00028w-1G for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:32:34 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.185]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000308F4.000000005FD6502E.00004D35; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 10:32:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:19:45 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: daniela-spit@gmx.it Subject: Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options Message-ID: References: <7330ab95c71d5d41d7fa6faffeaf300f@isnotmyreal.name> <20201211082501.GA18715@tuxteam.de> <871rfwctb2.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -2 X-Spam_score: -0.3 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.80 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DC24D940363 X-Spam-Score: -1.80 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: l+y6oWfUMNBT * daniela-spit@gmx.it [2020-12-13 08:52]: > > In general Org mode is excellent for personal TODO lists. That is what > > is offered in the menu, that is what is advertised. Problem is that > > there is no warning for users that personal TODO lists are not meant > > for anything but that. There is no collaboration, putting TODO items > > eveywhere IS procrastination. Using org-agenda to find procrastination > > is another procrastination. Trying to glue everything together is > > absence of good planning and not planning. > > Carsten would disagree with that evaluation. It is also for organising > professional life - with plain text. Still, if you are disorganized, > you can use it. Or perhaps if one is lazy - like myself, many things > I do nat have an interest in but have to oversee at least some parts of > them. Agree or not, it is written in the manual. The paradigm of organizing life does not inherit from Org. What inherits from Org is the paradigm to put any actionable items anywhere and compensate for scattered things by using org-agenda. Reference to manual: (info "(org) TODO Items") And it is definitely not a "plain text". It is probably largest mode for Emacs, a true and full application handling much more than plain text. It has more than 129 Emacs Lisp files. Maybe in beginning it was plain text, not any more now. Now it is a wannabe database. As I did notice the pattern of compensation for procrastination, and that I need more and more Emacs Lisp to fullfil basic human real world needs, then I rather made my own system that is meta level to Org files. Collaboration becomes possible due to the database being designed for multiple users. Privileges become possible for same reason. Automatic version control becomes possible database backed. Changes can be tracked back to know which user changed SCHEDULED to DEADLINE or DEADLINE to SCHEDULED or moved SCHEDULED forward in time or changed DEADLINE not to be DEADLINE any more. Who assigned which task to which person is easily viewable. People assigned need to be contacted, list of those people is there with hyperlinks and functions to send them email, SMS or call them. Org agenda need not compensate for anything. I can also put scattered tasks and note as I wish but I don't. My capture templates are over 1100+ subjects among which I probably use actively only 20-50, did not count it. Emacs Lisp handling that is currently 137 kilobytes. It did not yet reach 4.7 megabytes as Org distribution. I can convert everything to Org file when necessary. Even editing Org file by updating database is possible, but I do not wish to go back to complexities. My "headings" I call hyperdocuments which can be just anything. They can be packaged together or released together with the Org file summarizing them all. They can become Org file all together. It can be markdown, really plain text, video files, references of all kinds, also Org files, or just headings of it. Everything becomes elementary object of one bigger picture according to Engelbart: Doug Engelbart Institute - Boosting mankind's capability for coping with complex, urgent problems https://www.dougengelbart.org/ Draft OHS-Project Plan https://web.archive.org/web/20070704185333/http://www.bootstrap.org/augdocs/bi-2120.html TECHNOLOGY TEMPLATE PROJECT OHS Framework https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/ Design of any software would be better by following the Open Hyperdocument System project plan. > I often include org commands in source code which I can then parse. > For instance, I can use it to determine the cyclomatic complexity of > code, and help in admin tasks. I have no idea what is cyclomatic. Code definitely get complex. Give some example how are you putting org commands in source code. On my side I also use GNU Hyperbole package. In Emacs lisp M-RET on a function brings me to function definition which is very handy. I can invoke email on region or buffer text. I can define buttons in any source code to jump anywhere else. It works in Org as well. Org hyperlinks can also work in any buffer including in source codes. I am not sure if that is wanted. Text is definitely not any more "plain text" as soon as it has Org hyperlink. GNU Hyperbole type of hyperlinks: <(Look up word)> <(Find people without assigned groups)> This is because these hyperlinks are in a separate directory file and thus separate from the text file where they are located. Org hyperlinks need to be included in the text and would look like this: [[elisp:(look-up-word)][Look up word]] I do tend to have separate hyperlink meta data from the hyperlink itself. I would prefer something more generic like look up word [3:I49] to expand to hyperlink 3 words backwords or [I49:3] 3 words forward when parsing and displaying such a file. Or simply [I49] to become hyperlink itself to the node 49. If node 49 is WWW hyperlink, let user go there. If it is note, show him the note, if it is something else, go there. Jump anywhere including to any paragraphs. And that hyperlinks are provided by centralized database of all hyperlinks and hyperdocuments. Jean