From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id LbwFMfAO01/eXgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 06:17:20 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id OEzCLPAO0184GwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 06:17:20 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37469940418 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 06:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42168 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1knbjz-0001kM-5D for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:17:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49308) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1knbh6-00006o-J3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:14:20 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:40965) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1knbh3-0005OD-Mf; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:14:20 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.31]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E00D.000000005FD30E35.000002D1; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:14:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:12:16 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Bastien Subject: Re: Someone to oversee Org bugs as reported with M-x report-emacs-bugs? Message-ID: References: <87h7os9b0t.fsf@bzg.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h7os9b0t.fsf@bzg.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.80 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 37469940418 X-Spam-Score: -0.80 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: K60QGYzAx2EM * Bastien [2020-12-11 08:18]: > Dear all, > > as the subject says: it would be nice to have someone overseeing Org > bugs that are reported with M-x report-emacs-bugs. > > These bugs end up in the Emacs debbugs tracking tool: > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Bugs.html > > They are also sent to the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list: > https://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs Process could be somewhat automated if program calculcates what is the month and expands to 2020-12 then downloads automatically the mbox file from: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/mbox/bug-gnu-emacs/2020-12 and conduct grep searches: grep -i "Subject: .*Org" 2020-12 which gives: Subject: bug#45002: gnu.org Mailbox Upgrade!! Subject: bug#43268: Update Org for Emacs 27.2 Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectanble Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectanble Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectanble Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectanble Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectanble Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectangle Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectangle Subject: bug#43268: Update Org for Emacs 27.2 Subject: bug#43268: Update Org for Emacs 27.2 Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectangle Subject: bug#43268: Update Org for Emacs 27.2 Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectangle Subject: bug#45091: 27.1; M-x org-table-paste-rectangle Subject: bug#42484: 26.1: org-mode should display value of links in minibuffer Subject: bug#45147: Org-like cycling in outline-minor-mode Subject: bug#45147: Org-like cycling in outline-minor-mode If somebody has a VPS the report could come once per day. For me it would be quite natural that report arrives as Org file report. It is additionally possible to parse: bug#45147 into a hyperlink to WWW report: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=45147 or to directly link to mbox: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=45147&mbox=yes > Volunteering for overseeing these bugs does not mean you have to > subscribe to this list or to fix all Org bugs there :) But one could do that as it would be useful activity. And when one answers on bug reported through main Emacs interface one could add Cc: to Org mailing list. > First of all, most users use M-x org-submit-bug-report for Org bugs, > which is the preferred way of submitting Org bugs. Maybe they use that, maybe most users use the menu option. Let us not forget that majority of users will never report a bug and that bug reporting should be encouraged. > Secondly, most bugs reported with M-x report-emacs-bugs are bugs > against old versions of Org, already fixed upstream. > > So the idea is just to be able to answer one of these: > > - "Thanks but I cannot reproduce the bug with the latest Org." Org users are not necessarily experienced users who will know what it means: - bug? - when users do not understand the meaning they may not even report. If they wish to improve some feature, they will not report. Option in the Org menu: "Send bug report" could as well be more descriptive to be like: "Send bug report or feature request" and manual could prominently invite users to send bug reports or feature requests. Additionally, I suggest you add in the menu "Subscribe to Org mailing list" to invite users. - "to reproduce the bug" -- this may not have meaning for new users same as for you. It may be also understood as rejection or that user's observation is wrong, thus wronging the user. It needs more description - "latest Org" -- this may not be understood in the same way. It needs pointers how to upgrade. Formulation should be adopted to the view point of a new user, it could be something like: "Thank you for your bug report related to Org mode. New bugs like you reported get resolved in the next development version of the Org mode. The bug as described is not reproducing in that latest development version, so I think that it hsa been resolved. Advise is that you upgrade your Org package in Emacs by doing: M-x .............." Additionally in that snipper under that context that bug is not reproducible, you should tell to user that Org bugs may be reported straight from Org mode menu or by M-x org-submit-bug-report Please do not tell users something like Org is not Emacs as that is confusing, and not true. Telling them harshly that Org bugs have to be submitted to Org mailing list is causing problems as it is wronging users. Do not assume that user, especially one who reports through main interface, would know what you mean. You may formulate it better in the sense that it will be better understood. It is a snippet or template to be used, not something to re-type over and over again. Consider that Org comes with Emacs. GNU/Linux and BSD derivatives distribute Emacs. Users using Org need not know that there exists M-x package-list-packages and various versions of Org. > - "Thanks, I confirm this is a bug, can you forward it to the Org > mailing list at emacs-orgmode@gnu.org?" That is wrong approach and causes more work than necessary. User has already reported the bug properly in that case. Org is part of Emacs and user have clicked Help - Report Emacs Bug. Do not invite user to report again or do more actions. You have got the bug? Just Cc: the org mailing list and keep working with the bug by keeping Cc: in place and following the bug. Do not reject user's report by expecting user would help you send it to mailing list. Engage solving process as report is not at the step 2, don't bring it to step 1 back. To forward to Org mailing list is 1-2 seconds. Instead, you may answer as following: "Thank you for your bug report. I have now included copy of this report to the Org mailing list: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org When answering on this report, please use group reply option or reply to all option so that copied emails get notified. While it is alright to report bugs through the main Emacs interface you are encouraged to use review the menu option Org - Report Bugs for our faster response time." Jean