From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id wCEOKZppx1+mKwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 10:16:58 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id mELxJJppx1/8HAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 10:16:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DFC79402C8 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 10:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55052 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kkPBv-00058B-MR for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:16:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40976) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kkOqh-0005U3-5q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 04:54:59 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:59959) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kkOqe-0003jL-8q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 04:54:58 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C0007.000000005FC7646D.00005E26; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 09:54:52 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 12:49:54 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: One vs many directories Message-ID: References: <87mtz84om9.fsf@localhost> <87360yegmg.fsf@web.de> <87h7pdc0q8.fsf@web.de> <87ft4xbqwm.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ft4xbqwm.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , Texas Cyberthal , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 1.22 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2DFC79402C8 X-Spam-Score: 1.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu X-TUID: dbODECVv8fX6 * Ihor Radchenko [2020-11-25 14:48]: > > When I do C-c a it runs (org-agenda) but I do not have "g" and I am on > > development version. The C-c a window is made so that I cannot go with > > cursor inside and that I cannot even expect the key map neither invoke > > command by M-x and I cannot even M-: > > C-c a will first show so-called agenda dispatcher asking you what kind > of agenda view you want to get. You need to press a key according to > the popup window (i.e. `t' to see all not done items). Then, you will > get the proper agenda buffer with all the keymaps set and `g' bound to > refreshing the chosen agenda view in the buffer. > > > All that is wrong and not aligned to Emacs common interface. It is bug > > that bugs. Agenda buffer should allow users those standard Emacs > > features. > > I am wondering what is the common Emacs interface you refer to. I am not > aware about any standard way to prompt user while also showing detailed > description of what to expect from different choices. It is maybe not standard, but I never expected in last 20 years to get blocked when having some window as menu in front of me. Please look how mu4e is showing menu and compare: 1. when I open mu4e the menu does not block me to divide screen in 2 windows 2. org-agenda blocks me, it denies me using Emacs interface. This is personally disturbing and makes accessing Org agenda repetitive Observe how C-x C-f tries to find file: 1. it opens minibuffer and does not disturb user to move from minibuffer to other buffer to find references. I often have file names in other buffers and I move to minibuffer to open specific file 2. org-agenda does not allow any movement It is usability question. Personally I do not mind as I am transitioning and using Org files not anymore for planning, rather for documents. Org agenda window shall simply get a focus and be displayed in read-only Org mode with few key bindings invoking those commands. This way both the minibuffer and other windows remain accessible. I have tried to be nice when describing my experience with it. In very kind way I can say that I do not find it usable. Reference: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-101-introduction-to-usability/ For me it was not easy for reason that org-agenda offers 16 different menues and that I cannot keep open org-agenda window and move to other window for references. It requires me to write notes on paper to be able to use org-agenda. When searching for things I often use other window, I do copy and paste into minibuffer, read info files or other buffers. Consider this a bug, and it is already here on the mailing list. Jean