From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id eKlYNey5ul8IEgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:20:12 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id uOQYMey5ul+AFgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:20:12 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CB4E9403AA for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39998 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kguuB-0003U8-00 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:20:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33864) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kguqv-0000nH-DK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:16:49 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:58799) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kguqs-0002kL-74 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:16:48 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.56]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C0013.000000005FBAB8FA.00004B08; Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:16:10 +0000 Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 21:16:37 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Kristian =?utf-8?B?R3LDtm5iZXJn?= Subject: Re: Clock tables and two ways to categorize tasks Message-ID: References: <87h7pksalo.fsf@leo-B85-HD3.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <42BB991F-A000-4BB0-8040-27C4810F7C40@gronberg.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <42BB991F-A000-4BB0-8040-27C4810F7C40@gronberg.org> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org-Mode Emacs Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.01 X-TUID: BryXb/3zzNNx * Kristian Grönberg [2020-11-22 08:56]: > > > On 20 Nov 2020, at 10:23, Leo Okawa Ericson wrote: > > > >  > > Some time ago I hacked together a bunch of elisp to create a clock > > table I am sorry what is clock table? I found only this one: https://tinyurl.com/y2jomwqr Or do you mean clock-in and clock-out like tracking how much time was spent on specific task? For me that would be attention slurp, it means I would need to put attention to do the action clock-in and clock-out or clock-start and clock-stop. Maybe because I cannot relate my work to tracking time I do not use it. I am human not computer. Humans put attention on important things like writing and not on when writing began exactly and when did it stop exactly. Self-observation is fine in general and I recommend it, but for repetitiv stuff computers should be counting it for us. Instead of that current feature, which I would rather call anti-feature, what is really better is to simply designate subtree that such subtree wants to get tracked for work. When user enters the subtree and moves with cursor or writes anything or have it on screen then it should automatically start the clock and end the clock. And such statistic would be 100% of time wrong as user would need to make a break like to go to bathroom or eat and would forget to stop the clock. And if it tracks something else but work within the text file, like tracking how long time it takes to change a tyre then such tracking better be done by using something like Stoppuhr or stopwatch. To me that piece of time tracking information seem counter-productive anyway unless there is some race going on. I know that many people get paid by their time but not that I agree to that, I like paying for services done, products but not for time spent and also do not charge people by my time spent for their benefit. As time in itself does not give anything useful unless I put something useful inside. Those useful objects should be tracked and counted, something like how many breads have been produced, or how many phones have been sold or manufactured, how many clients have been served. >From viewpoint of non-time tracker such time tracking would make me lazy and frantic about stopping and starting time and there would be no way to exclude human errors so statistic would be wrong 100% of time. I am tracking real things, like emails sent as that number of email sent influences sales, then leads coming to database as influencing number of leads to subscribe to information increases sales, products sold, money in, something like that. Time tracking would be last for me.