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* Org and Hyperbole
@ 2022-06-20 14:03 Juan Manuel Macías
  2022-06-20 15:26 ` Russell Adams
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 118+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2022-06-20 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: orgmode

Hi,

I've been intrigued with GNU Hyperbole for a while. I'm reading the
documentation and trying it out a bit. It seems that its button system
is very powerful. But Org links are also powerful (and exportable), and
can be extended outside of Org docs. It seems that hyperbole offers some
cool stuff that Org also has. And other things that are not in Org. I
find some parts a bit confusing. I wonder if anyone is using hyperbole
with Org and can put here some minimal workflow example where both
complement each other in some way. Just in case I'm missing something
useful...

Best regards,

Juan Manuel 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 118+ messages in thread
* Re: Org and Hyperbole
@ 2022-06-22 19:57 linux_hpc_akr
  2022-06-23  6:47 ` Bill Burdick
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 118+ messages in thread
From: linux_hpc_akr @ 2022-06-22 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: orgmode

I use both Org and Hyperbole.

I'm a sysadmin so I do a lot with files and paths and URLs.  A lot of which
happens not in org files.

Being able to treat the files/paths/URLs as implicit buttons anywhere is
pretty valuable to me.

I just hit hkey-either on a filename/path and emacs opens it.  Or I hit
hkey-either on a URL and emacs sends to my web browser.  And I can do this in
any file or terminal or anywhere that I find myself in emacs.  I don't have to
think about it.  It just works.

Just my $0.02 in favor of using both Org and Hyperbole.

-- 
- Bill
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Bill Benedetto     <bbenedetto@goodyear.com>    The Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.
I don't speak for Goodyear and they don't speak for me.  We're both happy.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 118+ messages in thread
* Re: Org and Hyperbole
@ 2022-06-24  1:45 Robert Weiner
  2022-06-24  1:56 ` Robert Weiner
                   ` (8 more replies)
  0 siblings, 9 replies; 118+ messages in thread
From: Robert Weiner @ 2022-06-24  1:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-org list

Hi:

Thanks to Juan for starting this thread and the interesting
conversation it has started.  I just joined this mail list, so I don't
have the prior messages and can't reply to the thread, so I have
started this new one.

I am the author of Hyperbole and would be happy to answer questions
concerning Hyperbole today (so you don't have to answer based on
experience from the 1990s).  Hyperbole has been modernized for use
with Org mode and Emacs 28 and continues to develop.  There are videos
that demonstrate some of its features in simple, understandable ways.
Hyperbole is a single Emacs package that can be installed and
uninstalled quickly for testing.  It is largely a global minor mode,
so you can also disable it quickly if you ever care to.  In 20 minutes
you can get through the builtin, interactive demo and be on your way
to basic yet powerful usage.  We have listened to much feedback in the
last few years and made it much more approachable.

I find most of the confusion is people trying to understand how
Hyperbole works under the covers rather than just following the
tutorial and exploring it.  Hyperbole can be hacked on if you are a
moderate to advanced programmer but it is meant to be used, like Org
mode.  Hyperbole recognizes many, many common contexts in buffers that
could serve as hyperlinks (paths, URLs, multiple key sequences, mail
addresses, and on and on) and performs the typically desired action
when you press its Action Key {M-RET} on these 'implicit buttons'.
You get all this for free with no effort on your part.  Then if you
want to extend such behavior, as you have seen a bit of, you can
define your own implicit button and action types once and then
activate an infinite number of matching implicit buttons.  For
example, in an Emacs shell buffer, type:

   echo $PATH

then press the {M-RET} key or Shift-Middle mouse button on any path
there and jump right to it.  I find that very useful as a simple
example.  People are often surprised at how many things simply work
right out of the box because such broad context-sensitive behavior is
difficult to develop and rarely seen.  Just try it out and you should
find some contexts that you can leverage rapidly.  {C-h A} displays
what Hyperbole's Action Key will do in any context so you can always
check and learn before activating anything.  We say: Hyperbole brings
your text to life.  Like Org and Emacs, it provides an extensive
environment that you can grow into across time, getting ever more
productive rather than hitting a ceiling as with most point
packages/tools.

I am happy to answer questions and discuss ways we can make Hyperbole
and Org work even better together; one direct question per message
would typically work best.  Responses may take awhile as my schedule
makes it difficult to keep up with high volume mailing lists but if
you cc: rsw@gnu.org, I'll likely see your message faster and respond.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 118+ messages in thread
* Re: Org and Hyperbole
@ 2022-10-04  6:46 Payas Relekar
  2022-10-07 22:44 ` Jean Louis
  2022-10-08 20:48 ` Robert Weiner
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 118+ messages in thread
From: Payas Relekar @ 2022-10-04  6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks, Jean.  We have started work on a note-taking subsystem for
> Hyperbole that will store UUIDs per note and will likely support backlinks
> too.  We are seeing if we can make it support Koutlines, Emacs Outlines,
> Org mode files and Markdown files, searching across all formats at the same
> time.  The default for creating new notes will likely be a personal
> Koutline file.

Not Jean, but as someone using Org with Hyperbole, this is a great news!

> We welcome brief summaries of features you need for effective note taking
> in Emacs.  We are not looking to do much with images or on mobile devices,
> just focused on people who spend a lot of time in Emacs and want an
> easy-to-use notes system that does not require any external packages like
> SQLite.

For my 2c:

- Multiple small files vs single large file.
  I currently have former, with org-roam taking care of finding, linking
  and backlinking between files, making it a non-issue to easily build a
  network of connected topics/thoughts

- Daily notes
  Every day gets its own note, only generated if visited. This allows
  dumping the thoughts at that moment rather than first hunting the
  correct node. Then they can be easily filtered into actual topic note,
  or just be referenced via backlinks buffer

- sqlite might just be better, considering overhead of opening and
  parsing hundreds-thousands of small files is non-negligible.

- Refiling
  Refile/move the subtree (in Org terms) can be easily moved to another
  file and the links automatically point to new location. This means I
  can always know rearranging stuff later is a possibility, and its less
  cognitive burden to organize.

In short, the framework takes care of organization and makes retrieval
easy and all I have to worry about is the content.

Thanks,
Payas

--


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 118+ messages in thread
* Re: Org and Hyperbole
@ 2022-10-09  9:12 Payas Relekar
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 118+ messages in thread
From: Payas Relekar @ 2022-10-09  9:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org> writes:

> Good to hear.  Maybe you can provide early feedback when it hits the
> Hyperbole pre-release in the elpa-devel package archive (pre-releases of
> Hyperbole packaged up from the git master branch tip).

I'll be happy to! Unfortunately I'm not able to always follow this list,
so if possible, please let me know when you have something I can try
out.

> Yes.  It will search over many files and even recursive directories of
> files.  Org-roam has a good model for rapid searching, so we'll have to
> consider something similar.  It might not be in the first release but will
> come by the second major release.

Thanks! I've found that without instant/near-instant search the chain of
thought breaks easily (Thanks, ADHD!), so this one is quite important.

> Each note will have an optional datetime stamp which will be on by
> default.  If you care to make one note per day, you can do that.

Sounds good!

> Yes, that is the reason for desiring some kind of database-backed indexing.

Yes, but from your other email it appears this one is not going to
happen due to previous Emacs versions not having built-in sqlite. Have
you thought of any alternate way for achieving same performance without
any built-in database?

> Yes.  The idea is that you initially capture notes into a single default
> file and then can quickly refile them as needed.

While single default file sounds good, individual daily files are better
IME. Because the single file inevitably becomes too large, unwieldy and
generally not the best place to go through quickly.

>> In short, the framework takes care of organization and makes retrieval
>> easy and all I have to worry about is the content.
>>
>
> Yes, I think we typically do this throughout Hyperbole, as it is very
> important to us.

Thanks! Hyperbole has been really good experience so far, because of
practically zero config and batteries included approach. Better
integration with stock Emacs stuff like Org, Gnus and Dired is always
welcome.

Thanks a lot for working on Hyperbole and being responsive!

--


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 118+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-10-11  0:27 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 118+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-06-20 14:03 Org and Hyperbole Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-20 15:26 ` Russell Adams
2022-06-20 16:57   ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-06-20 23:28     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-20 23:37   ` Tim Cross
2022-09-27 13:06     ` Jean Louis
2022-09-27 15:08       ` Russell Adams
2022-10-08 17:26         ` Robert Weiner
2022-09-27 13:18     ` Jean Louis
2022-06-22 15:13   ` Russell Adams
2022-06-22 17:36     ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-22 18:05       ` David Masterson
2022-06-22 19:03         ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-23  3:46           ` David Masterson
2022-06-20 15:56 ` Uwe Brauer
2022-06-20 16:09 ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-20 16:24 ` indieterminacy
2022-06-22 14:48   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-09-27 13:26   ` Jean Louis
2022-06-21  3:08 ` David Masterson
2022-06-22 10:37   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-22 14:35     ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-22 19:23       ` David Masterson
2022-06-22 19:26         ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-22 19:55           ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-23 18:48       ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-06-22 19:17     ` David Masterson
2022-06-23  1:12     ` Samuel Wales
2022-06-23  4:04       ` David Masterson
2022-06-23  5:22         ` indieterminacy
2022-06-23 15:38           ` Samuel Banya
2022-06-23 23:30           ` Samuel Wales
2022-06-23 23:36             ` Samuel Wales
2022-06-24  5:50               ` indieterminacy
2022-09-27 13:33       ` Jean Louis
2022-10-07 20:34       ` Jean Louis
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-06-22 19:57 linux_hpc_akr
2022-06-23  6:47 ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-23  6:53   ` Bill Burdick
2022-06-24  1:45 Robert Weiner
2022-06-24  1:56 ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-24  4:32   ` Samuel Wales
2022-06-24  5:34     ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-24 10:55       ` indieterminacy
2022-06-24 12:51         ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-08 20:26           ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-10  4:02             ` indieterminacy
2022-09-27 13:59       ` Jean Louis
2022-10-04  6:10         ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-04 18:05           ` David Masterson
2022-10-07 19:52             ` Jean Louis
2022-10-08 21:05               ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-09  9:54                 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-10 16:44                   ` David Masterson
2022-10-10 23:04                     ` Jean Louis
2022-10-11  0:21                       ` David Masterson
2022-10-07 22:57             ` Jean Louis
2022-10-10 16:50               ` David Masterson
2022-10-10 23:07                 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-08 20:53             ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-09 11:16               ` Jean Louis
2022-10-10 16:52               ` David Masterson
2022-10-07 22:18           ` Jean Louis
2022-09-27 13:52     ` Jean Louis
2022-06-24  2:13 ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-06-24  2:20   ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-24  2:14 ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-24  6:29 ` Tim Cross
2022-06-24 12:44   ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-24 13:52 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-24 22:06   ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-25 14:32     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-25 20:35       ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-08 20:34       ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-08 21:43         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-06-24 17:57 ` João Pedro
2022-06-25  1:32   ` Robert Weiner
2022-07-02  4:41     ` Samuel Wales
2022-07-02  4:49       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-02  4:57         ` Samuel Wales
2022-07-02  5:12           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-02 21:38             ` Samuel Wales
2022-07-07 12:18     ` Max Brieiev
2022-07-07 12:27       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-16 23:16         ` Robert Weiner
2022-07-16 23:17           ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-25 19:07 ` David Masterson
2022-06-25 20:49   ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-25 21:18     ` David Masterson
2022-10-08 19:44       ` Robert Weiner
2022-09-27 14:06     ` Jean Louis
2022-10-04  6:11       ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-07 22:04         ` Jean Louis
2022-06-26  6:37 ` Siva Swaminathan
2022-06-26  7:24   ` tomas
2022-06-26 20:03     ` David Masterson
2022-06-26 20:27       ` indieterminacy
2022-06-26 20:51         ` Robert Weiner
2022-06-27 23:16           ` David Masterson
2022-06-26 20:27   ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-08 19:52   ` Robert Weiner
2022-07-04 10:43 ` Fraga, Eric
2022-07-04 11:01   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-04 11:08     ` Fraga, Eric
2022-07-04 11:09   ` Tim Cross
2022-07-04 14:20     ` Fraga, Eric
2022-07-04 16:56       ` Robert Weiner
2022-07-06 16:58         ` Fraga, Eric
2022-07-07  2:33           ` Robert Weiner
2022-07-07 10:46             ` Fraga, Eric
2022-10-08 20:01               ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-04  6:46 Payas Relekar
2022-10-07 22:44 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-08  0:45   ` Hendursaga
2022-10-08  1:05     ` Jean Louis
2022-10-08 17:04       ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-08 20:48 ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-09  9:12 Payas Relekar

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