From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id KKp1CHWPk2ObYgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 20:41:41 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id SKSDCHWPk2M5MAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 20:41:41 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999A639A87 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 20:41:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jEp-0001Wn-CB; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:40:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jEU-0001TQ-Q4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:40:38 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-170.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.170]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jEQ-000625-Hu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:40:30 -0500 Received: from NAM11-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11lp2173.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.173]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-288--ddFJfVyPRenuYdu09v42w-2; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:40:22 -0500 X-MC-Unique: -ddFJfVyPRenuYdu09v42w-2 Received: from DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:79::16) by MW5PR20MB4427.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:1a2::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5880.14; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:40:17 +0000 Received: from DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a2ca:ae14:c459:fc31]) by DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a2ca:ae14:c459:fc31%4]) with mapi id 15.20.5880.016; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:40:17 +0000 From: "Cook, Malcolm" To: David Masterson , Eli Zaretskii CC: "michel@schi.nz" , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Thread-Topic: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Thread-Index: AQHZCR5eZDy5J6kF+UuTmomTbhGr6K5ibgoAgADrUJ6AAD7mboAAAlGAgAC5oRiAADryuoAAm71hgAAHAgWAAKo6wA== Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:40:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DS7PR20MB4671:EE_|MW5PR20MB4427:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a7a35249-99e0-4848-dfb4-08dada1d3330 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230022)(39850400004)(376002)(346002)(136003)(396003)(366004)(451199015)(26005)(786003)(86362001)(316002)(9686003)(76116006)(2906002)(54906003)(110136005)(83380400001)(33656002)(8936002)(55016003)(52536014)(5660300002)(66556008)(8676002)(66476007)(4326008)(64756008)(66946007)(66446008)(41300700001)(71200400001)(38100700002)(966005)(478600001)(122000001)(186003)(7696005)(6506007)(38070700005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?De9R+iUGSD0vRn2JNbQNEah9zX4WeHlm4/oblGjEcl/qUfAd5ZrEpAC+xbkX?= =?us-ascii?Q?oTdoBR/XbySLzKXD+zaYJxU3JqDnQNC1JcBt7wURJcML6Cema5NArN834pYD?= =?us-ascii?Q?4UDmm5IjGEqyvgn2MwHm6/zGydRIZ1Rzb80I/DVAK7YkbBz4ii6uTbKCyV8y?= =?us-ascii?Q?DM3Ys788hLVziR0vyoA96kCyutGXXnI6Pf3YhJUSr7H4US3NB4r5zQgFJ8wj?= =?us-ascii?Q?ra8kAh86g+Zi141M4hUDkxEFm69jet1tZid0eWAL18bUlT9A56RYx3CbN9dW?= =?us-ascii?Q?hsMPDZNmHCIt7k007xno2M9TAgLmQFcm+xnvkIIVxvRtcT9vakn8kbwDS7IV?= =?us-ascii?Q?GojABb4sMxp897naULSlyS0DRKAmpPGnqGZys1Q3BbdwfH7csEBtNKNCjiRu?= =?us-ascii?Q?m5YFgfdEgnOk5uaG2FnvUaFeLC6X0+TY4nOqKnCXBPxnp802QLo+AjURuPif?= =?us-ascii?Q?9U+2E1N8YlXoJTfQ5OIB8eTLl7OGWBBnkEZZNepKKDkS6FceaCKkkt/bsm28?= =?us-ascii?Q?tB11E/3x+f5ORf1b+tYuH5B9iEVePw5bXrBQJ3F/bkgdlEUNRfiw468FxyvR?= =?us-ascii?Q?e0F+W+3ptGwt8q1sdIsqEeXK4a9RHxOFNSmlW7hzJv02x3Nsv6f4bes4Cye2?= =?us-ascii?Q?+pF4i+aXlDB0W2zGIqi2wAljZ4fH71B4PrczX+8w0GCIs4r5FxdOPKqy6zRA?= =?us-ascii?Q?NAeEYO7KpSIVY3jKpZLQ4+YTfHmheV74mplsjJMU0Qk7zgyyofidXdqVpegE?= =?us-ascii?Q?tJsgZI/4fRkWhmPm/Fe0VxtMNE0KNcmBuwTkrpvzqNHke6E2eNVC55G8hDzW?= =?us-ascii?Q?abApE2nVst9EgIjgTyFCqahce+7Yz8siaPr0KkOzoLazu4Uicqbz6vK8q0WT?= =?us-ascii?Q?gh43L8I4DLeVViraxiykq1dZLShRSUuMu+e3+K3zxSq6P+xBK/tfriy5ZrBd?= =?us-ascii?Q?PozSh7Bn5KpFqQEcXakDrnmwB8TxORUELwVzsDxm5NxgIUi+3Chn8zV4jJc3?= =?us-ascii?Q?H2vHzeKNOG4EgODBEt4q7A4ud9zZfVNSOA1j7K97O0dTQbEF5BVOhVRJpU2v?= =?us-ascii?Q?CdTM6kY2Qfulmdd9XCfwOTcFPHKP38dK04H8TJQ0GCmRnpVVlie0SwcHiX+y?= =?us-ascii?Q?0C8NmVhPwc5TJyIUGFszF6xyA9Ne3TnRxbSh2kx2O60kS7EjzxQxmX4FJagj?= =?us-ascii?Q?MFomTm9T0c8v5/0ntVr8Do47DG2TwgchLwvQKGBRShHg3Y7OJKIHgzpK54fI?= =?us-ascii?Q?QeioCqliNPTyEYucLSHqzssaUFVcT7p0BFpwVtHC2fPFPvqBssOTZE/iElD2?= =?us-ascii?Q?lvhvLFVLcGR9c6VM/MNszxrg9hW3YoXZvD/0TlkA2sup/bAgWo1qZE0cgHMI?= =?us-ascii?Q?3j/ZITh1NWLUefYRVZ4w1Nr4nB/o8puHdDfoaEZwJ7wMwWCtuECrxQ1RSzX0?= =?us-ascii?Q?Y6Q+CqIj4N4TPn4d9leMlvGtFJHyfZzlGgL5CzJ8JmCtq5MrEpcIVEfyCwDS?= =?us-ascii?Q?FSDiMUjQeJhfnar09jjY+zvTwyHpK/K2x1dSyc/obhhU+RhNruG8JdxhVnEu?= =?us-ascii?Q?UUPAHunFh5tIdcAVSLM=3D?= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: stowers.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a7a35249-99e0-4848-dfb4-08dada1d3330 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2022 19:40:17.3625 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 3ab7a17c-a0ab-4280-b9f3-bb144eebee49 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9MSqg0jf4diUuKgF7lhyqr1vV23zlOr0khgqYwHzFVyY1l8p+cCKYIwbfM9MDXzy X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW5PR20MB4427 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: stowers.org Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.170; envelope-from=mec@stowers.org; helo=us-smtp-delivery-170.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_BAD_THREAD_QP_64=0.999, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1670614900; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=TvM55XGGXYEVUddq+pt1Hqj5s4iXclCEcdwCXUc0PTg=; b=arYBA1K42IgEqwx8QWsFJ1wGk7SoG0FMrUIiDk2O1yqZOtmct62bolMqOg46fiyOZl4eVf R30vseYfYE+OwEAJ2Bi+s9nrezVK32Wez3TdWHW48BL4piWZQU5lhv/Bg/uecGv2QC2sTG cjKO365KJUwJ0q2p0lS7X36SMqOX7+m5y6/gYWAERu20n2RlzbEIR335gHFyOHRpK7H5pn iPcoeEocU0BEZkiS8R5v4DlAcogqguc5m7jkxSunw02hudUTcOWfPtctXsizD6MMeWVKAK K7m62Otio1EduCNsKLkBMnIPbMLcEM9Dcz47pJB7085VDRAZYzdMceuQcZczvw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1670614900; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=tCnZPM7wdJyqaM484tIZN0L8WJjoM+rghDgBI/anSmDR8DEcaY4vyBq8oq1snzUlLVsbhX c7AfgUFirfgJlsYx6MqOZTBI+LBquXSuxeSbzb1d3vIBQ3ht/d4KfoQD/RrmgUO8x6UU2O EiiO/n8tHGSHkjz2CuOdgQUPYn1Lo5JSHmhuw6gjo42EFKtPeFak5IWWONk820J6tH0q/R rIb6ScAKWeQAYZvRk84gF3iiLxrOy+G9a8TnjTToEFxpYk28uC2woLWLUjxRPE1S+Ikwea 4agvU7WabPPB0LbydzdwExVLq6HS3wMDt0ITpDTmNW52BBaoFQgw8HpzbHAbGQ== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.35 X-Spam-Score: -4.35 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 999A639A87 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: F1ETpdD9yT9p > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 > >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > >> From: David Masterson > >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 > >> > >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: > >> > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> ;; Error undefined > >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> 9.3 > >> > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? >=20 > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-versio= n?=20 This is provided for via emacs' autoload by prefix mechanism. See: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefi= x.html What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: =09(clrhash definition-prefixes) > didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a package-activate-all= (or > similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. >=20 > -- > David Masterson