org-mode based groupware wiki

org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

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Hi,
recently I discovered gollumn [1] and was amazed to see that there is a
software which allows non-orgers to work with / read my org-files and which
even use git as the backend to get all save and nice together, even if
working concurrently on the same files.

I was wondering, because I never read about gollum in this ML and my search
only revealed a very short three year old thread between Bastien and Eric
Schulte. Despite that many of us was asking of possible ways how to use org
as a groupware like environment. I guess this topic was discussed even more
frequently over the last three years.
Unfortunately, the main drawback, the usage of org-ruby [2] as org-mode
parser still remains. I frighten that org-ruby only works on a small subset
of the org-mode syntax and that even this might be a bit out-of-date. As
far as I understood, org-mode in the meantime switched to a new exporter
[3] and we got org-elements [4] and a heavy work towards standardization
thanks to Nicolas Goaziou.

What would be the best way to get the best out of the gollum idea and the
new org-mode capabilities?

- Skip gollumn and use (an updated) blorgit [5] (Does it have editor
functionality?) ?
- Enhance org-ruby?
- Write a small script which creates a native html export from org-mode and
hook this into gollumn? However, that would require emacs and org-mode
being installed on the server side.

For me gollums most important feature would be that people could use their
web-browser and edit org-files. It might not be the most comfortable way of
editing a org-file but a simple adding of a row into a table or rephrasing
or adding a paragraph would be totally possible. It even might help to
introduce people into using emacs and org-mode.

It would be really nice to have such an easy access to org-files. Even
hard-core orgers might like the idea to e.g. access and lightly modify
there org-files on-the-go via smartphones and tablets without running a
full emacs session. (I am aware of Mobileorg ;) )

I got a bit into detail here to hopefully kick-off some discussions.

All the best

Torsten


[1] https://github.com/gollum/gollum
[2] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-ruby.html
[3] http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html
[4] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-element-api.html
[5] http://orgmode.org/worg/blorgit.html

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Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Eric Schulte]

Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo on
github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API is
constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode pages
through a web page.

Cheers,

Footnotes: 
[1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884

[2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml

-- 
Eric Schulte
https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
PGP: 0x614CA05D

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

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Hi Eric,

thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still actively
maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse. On
the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)

Could you agree with the following comparison:

* gollum
- standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
- can use different makeup-languages
- can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about using
Apache Webserver)
- enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
org-mode editor is available)
- basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).

* org-ehtml
- part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
- makes use of the new exporter
- ...

... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)

(ert "org-ehtml")
->
Selector: "org-ehtml"
Passed: 0
Failed: 0
Total:  0/0

Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
Finished.
Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200

(setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
->
"/home/torsten/test-wiki/"

(elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
->
((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))

When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:

<h1>Server error</h1>

No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.

Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
elnode README worked out ok

(defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
  "Demonstration function"
  (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
  (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))

(elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")


Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function need
some rewrite?

All the best

Torsten



On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo on
> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API is
> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode pages
> through a web page.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Footnotes:
> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
>
> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
>
> --
> Eric Schulte
> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>

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Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

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Hi Eric,

still trying to figure out whats wrong with my set-up. Did you had time to
look intio it.
It seems somehow elnode does not play well anymore with the current version
of ehtml.
Or something like this.
I can access elnodes standard services and I can create new services like
described in the elnode wiki.
However, following the README of ehtml. I receive the early posted error
message. This is not an emacs-based error or any sort of crash. It seems to
be something which is "well" handled by elnodes error catching.

Would be glad if you could give us some advice how to deal with that or how
to test further. We are in the middle of setting up a groupware wiki. Two
of us are org-mode users and the others do not really care what
markup-language that might have to use. Thus, it gives us the comfort to
stick with org-mode and we only have to decide to go the ehtml/emacs way or
the gollum/org-ruby way. Even more luckily this is not a decision forever,
since the files remain to be native org-files on both systems, I believe we
could switch at anytime.
This is again a nice example of the pure text based org-mode paradigm.

Thanks

Torsten


On 7 October 2013 17:02, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still actively
> maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
> people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse. On
> the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)
>
> Could you agree with the following comparison:
>
> * gollum
> - standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
> - can use different makeup-languages
> - can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about using
> Apache Webserver)
> - enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
> org-mode editor is available)
> - basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).
>
> * org-ehtml
> - part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
> - makes use of the new exporter
> - ...
>
> ... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
> I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)
>
> (ert "org-ehtml")
> ->
> Selector: "org-ehtml"
> Passed: 0
> Failed: 0
> Total:  0/0
>
> Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
> Finished.
> Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>
> (setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
> ->
> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
>
> (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
> ->
> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
>
> When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
> http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:
>
> <h1>Server error</h1>
>
> No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.
>
> Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
> elnode README worked out ok
>
> (defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
>   "Demonstration function"
>   (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
>   (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))
>
> (elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")
>
>
> Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function
> need some rewrite?
>
> All the best
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
> On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo on
>> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API is
>> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode pages
>> through a web page.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Footnotes:
>> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
>>
>> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
>>
>> --
>> Eric Schulte
>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>
>
>

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Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Eric Schulte]

Hi Torsten,

Sorry I missed your earlier email, I'm happy to hear that this package
is being used for collaboration between Org-mode users and normal
people.

The org-ehtml package hadn't been updated in over a year, in the mean
time the many changes have taken place in Org-mode (especially what was
the "new" export framework becoming the "main" Org-mode export
framework).

I've just finished updating org-ehtml to work with current versions of
Org-mode and elnode (and I've updated the ELPA package).  Please try
with the latest version of org-ehtml and let me know if you run into
problems.

Cheers,

Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Eric,
>
> still trying to figure out whats wrong with my set-up. Did you had time to
> look intio it.
> It seems somehow elnode does not play well anymore with the current version
> of ehtml.
> Or something like this.
> I can access elnodes standard services and I can create new services like
> described in the elnode wiki.
> However, following the README of ehtml. I receive the early posted error
> message. This is not an emacs-based error or any sort of crash. It seems to
> be something which is "well" handled by elnodes error catching.
>
> Would be glad if you could give us some advice how to deal with that or how
> to test further. We are in the middle of setting up a groupware wiki. Two
> of us are org-mode users and the others do not really care what
> markup-language that might have to use. Thus, it gives us the comfort to
> stick with org-mode and we only have to decide to go the ehtml/emacs way or
> the gollum/org-ruby way. Even more luckily this is not a decision forever,
> since the files remain to be native org-files on both systems, I believe we
> could switch at anytime.
> This is again a nice example of the pure text based org-mode paradigm.
>
> Thanks
>
> Torsten
>
>
> On 7 October 2013 17:02, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Eric,
>>
>> thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still actively
>> maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
>> people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse. On
>> the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)
>>
>> Could you agree with the following comparison:
>>
>> * gollum
>> - standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
>> - can use different makeup-languages
>> - can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about using
>> Apache Webserver)
>> - enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
>> org-mode editor is available)
>> - basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).
>>
>> * org-ehtml
>> - part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
>> - makes use of the new exporter
>> - ...
>>
>> ... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
>> I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)
>>
>> (ert "org-ehtml")
>> ->
>> Selector: "org-ehtml"
>> Passed: 0
>> Failed: 0
>> Total:  0/0
>>
>> Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>> Finished.
>> Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>>
>> (setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
>> ->
>> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
>>
>> (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
>> ->
>> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
>>
>> When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
>> http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:
>>
>> <h1>Server error</h1>
>>
>> No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.
>>
>> Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
>> elnode README worked out ok
>>
>> (defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
>>   "Demonstration function"
>>   (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
>>   (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))
>>
>> (elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")
>>
>>
>> Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function
>> need some rewrite?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo on
>>> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API is
>>> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode pages
>>> through a web page.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Footnotes:
>>> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
>>>
>>> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eric Schulte
>>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>>
>>
>>

-- 
Eric Schulte
https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
PGP: 0x614CA05D

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2013-10-14, o godz. 07:07:44
Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> napisał(a):

> [...] collaboration between Org-mode users and normal people.
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I *love* the above distinction.

;)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

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Hi Eric,

thanks for the reply. Unfortuantely, I still stuck with the same problem
after updating from ELPA.
If it works ok for you with the recent version of elnode and ehtml, I might
have to digg where my config is broken. I tried following the readmes but
the elnode server responeses with

<h1>Server error</h1>

at the website and I can't find any addtional error message in the logs.

Thanks for help and support

Torsten



On 14 October 2013 15:07, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Torsten,
>
> Sorry I missed your earlier email, I'm happy to hear that this package
> is being used for collaboration between Org-mode users and normal
> people.
>
> The org-ehtml package hadn't been updated in over a year, in the mean
> time the many changes have taken place in Org-mode (especially what was
> the "new" export framework becoming the "main" Org-mode export
> framework).
>
> I've just finished updating org-ehtml to work with current versions of
> Org-mode and elnode (and I've updated the ELPA package).  Please try
> with the latest version of org-ehtml and let me know if you run into
> problems.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > still trying to figure out whats wrong with my set-up. Did you had time
> to
> > look intio it.
> > It seems somehow elnode does not play well anymore with the current
> version
> > of ehtml.
> > Or something like this.
> > I can access elnodes standard services and I can create new services like
> > described in the elnode wiki.
> > However, following the README of ehtml. I receive the early posted error
> > message. This is not an emacs-based error or any sort of crash. It seems
> to
> > be something which is "well" handled by elnodes error catching.
> >
> > Would be glad if you could give us some advice how to deal with that or
> how
> > to test further. We are in the middle of setting up a groupware wiki. Two
> > of us are org-mode users and the others do not really care what
> > markup-language that might have to use. Thus, it gives us the comfort to
> > stick with org-mode and we only have to decide to go the ehtml/emacs way
> or
> > the gollum/org-ruby way. Even more luckily this is not a decision
> forever,
> > since the files remain to be native org-files on both systems, I believe
> we
> > could switch at anytime.
> > This is again a nice example of the pure text based org-mode paradigm.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> >
> > On 7 October 2013 17:02, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Eric,
> >>
> >> thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still actively
> >> maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
> >> people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse. On
> >> the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)
> >>
> >> Could you agree with the following comparison:
> >>
> >> * gollum
> >> - standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
> >> - can use different makeup-languages
> >> - can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about using
> >> Apache Webserver)
> >> - enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
> >> org-mode editor is available)
> >> - basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).
> >>
> >> * org-ehtml
> >> - part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
> >> - makes use of the new exporter
> >> - ...
> >>
> >> ... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
> >> I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)
> >>
> >> (ert "org-ehtml")
> >> ->
> >> Selector: "org-ehtml"
> >> Passed: 0
> >> Failed: 0
> >> Total:  0/0
> >>
> >> Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
> >> Finished.
> >> Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
> >>
> >> (setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
> >> ->
> >> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
> >>
> >> (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
> >> ->
> >> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
> >>
> >> When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
> >> http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:
> >>
> >> <h1>Server error</h1>
> >>
> >> No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.
> >>
> >> Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
> >> elnode README worked out ok
> >>
> >> (defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
> >>   "Demonstration function"
> >>   (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
> >>   (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))
> >>
> >> (elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")
> >>
> >>
> >> Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function
> >> need some rewrite?
> >>
> >> All the best
> >>
> >> Torsten
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo on
> >>> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API is
> >>> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode pages
> >>> through a web page.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Footnotes:
> >>> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
> >>>
> >>> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Eric Schulte
> >>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
> >>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Eric Schulte
> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>

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Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

Hi again,

today seems to be my Eric Schulte spamming day. Sorry for that.

Ok. Checking why I do not have the latest and finest version of
org-ehtml I found the following error

package-compute-transaction: Need package `elnode-20130416.1626', but
only 0.9.9.7.6 is available
However, org-ehtml requirements in ELPA says
Requires: elnode-0.9.9, org-plus-contrib-20120928

I can't find a version of ELPA with this name. Might it be, that you
used a locally installed version of elnodes?

All my other errors might simply result of using a org-ehtml version
which still relied on the old exporter. E.g. I had no ox-ehtml.
I guess  I am getting closer.
I will try to install elnodes from git and see if this helps.
All the best

Torsten





On 16 October 2013 16:53, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
> Stop!
> I just notice that my elpa installation seems to be broken. Still have
> a ehtml version of 2012 despite the fact that I tried to update them
> yesterday.
>
> Will check this further. Forget about my gibberish in my last response!
> Sorry
>
>
> On 16 October 2013 16:39, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Eric,
>>
>> thanks for the ueberfast response...
>>
>> On 16 October 2013 15:55, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Lets at least try to isolate the problem.  Could you try the following?
>>
>> Sure,
>>
>>> 1. (require 'elnode), then point your browser to http://localhost:8000 where
>>> you should see a directory listing and a test.html file, clicking on the
>>> test.html file should show elnodes test web page.  If this doesn't work you
>>> don't have elnode installed correctly.
>>
>> This seems to work. I get a basic set of a folder structure as response.
>> However, calling elnode I find
>>
>> Package assoc is obsolete!
>>
>> in my *Message* buffer. Calling the website I receive a lot of elnode
>> errors like:
>> ...
>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> with buffer nil
>> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> open from 127.0.0.1
>> elnode-error: filter: calling handler on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> elnode-error: starting HTTP response on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> elnode-error: elnode--process-send-eof on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> elnode-error: elnode--http-end ending socket *elnode-webserver-proc*
>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'deleted.' for process
>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> with buffer
>> *elnode-request-39559*
>> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> deleted
>> elnode-error: filter: handler returned on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39560> with buffer nil
>> ...
>>
>> However, it seems still to work somehow or at least there is something
>> on the website.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. (require 'ox-ehtml), then open an Org-mode file and export with C-c C-e,
>>> you should now see a normal html export of the file.
>>
>> Did you mean org-ehtml?
>> Just wondering. Or did you mean org-export? Because trying to execute
>> (require 'ox-ehtml) emacs can't find a file with this name,
>> (require 'org-ethml) it complains of not being able to load org-export!
>>
>> Exporting a test file as HTML w (C-c C-e h o) however works.
>>
>> Hmm... I just notice, that org-export, which I can call despite it
>> tells me org-export is missing, gives me the old exporter mask.
>> Calling C-c C-e gives me the new mask.
>> Checking for key-bindings C-c C-e runs the command org-export-dispatch.
>> Maybe this gives you some idea?
>> Just to give some more details
>> I use
>> Org-mode version 8.2.1 (8.2.1-3-g35e5e5-elpa @
>> /home/torsten/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20131007/)
>> GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.8.2) of
>> 2013-08-07 on -mnt-storage-buildroots-staging-x86_64-eric
>>
>> Should I see another exporter after calling ox-ehtml?
>>
>> I guess the problem appears within the above step already.
>>
>> Any idea?
>>
>> Torsten

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Eric Schulte]

Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi again,
>
> today seems to be my Eric Schulte spamming day. Sorry for that.
>

No problem.

>
> Ok. Checking why I do not have the latest and finest version of
> org-ehtml I found the following error
>
> package-compute-transaction: Need package `elnode-20130416.1626', but
> only 0.9.9.7.6 is available
> However, org-ehtml requirements in ELPA says
> Requires: elnode-0.9.9, org-plus-contrib-20120928
>
> I can't find a version of ELPA with this name. Might it be, that you
> used a locally installed version of elnodes?
>

It is possible that I have a different version installed with ELPA, here
are the package archives I'm using

     (setq package-archives
           '(("gnu"         . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
             ("original"    . "http://tromey.com/elpa/")
             ("org"         . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/")
             ("marmalade"   . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/")
             ("melpa"       . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/")))
     (package-initialize)

>
> All my other errors might simply result of using a org-ehtml version
> which still relied on the old exporter. E.g. I had no ox-ehtml.

If you don't have ox-ehtml then you probably either don't have the
latest version of org-ehtml, or you don't have your load path setup to
find org-ehtml/src/ox-ehtml.el.  If ELPA causes problems you might want
to grab the org-ehtml and elnode git repositories and install the old
fashioned way.

> 
> I guess I am getting closer.  I will try to install elnodes from git
> and see if this helps.  All the best
>

Hope this helps, best of luck and let me know if I can help further.

>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16 October 2013 16:53, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Stop!
>> I just notice that my elpa installation seems to be broken. Still have
>> a ehtml version of 2012 despite the fact that I tried to update them
>> yesterday.
>>
>> Will check this further. Forget about my gibberish in my last response!
>> Sorry
>>
>>
>> On 16 October 2013 16:39, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Eric,
>>>
>>> thanks for the ueberfast response...
>>>
>>> On 16 October 2013 15:55, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lets at least try to isolate the problem.  Could you try the following?
>>>
>>> Sure,
>>>
>>>> 1. (require 'elnode), then point your browser to http://localhost:8000 where
>>>> you should see a directory listing and a test.html file, clicking on the
>>>> test.html file should show elnodes test web page.  If this doesn't work you
>>>> don't have elnode installed correctly.
>>>
>>> This seems to work. I get a basic set of a folder structure as response.
>>> However, calling elnode I find
>>>
>>> Package assoc is obsolete!
>>>
>>> in my *Message* buffer. Calling the website I receive a lot of elnode
>>> errors like:
>>> ...
>>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
>>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> with buffer nil
>>> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> open from 127.0.0.1
>>> elnode-error: filter: calling handler on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> elnode-error: starting HTTP response on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> elnode-error: elnode--process-send-eof on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> elnode-error: elnode--http-end ending socket *elnode-webserver-proc*
>>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'deleted.' for process
>>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> with buffer
>>> *elnode-request-39559*
>>> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39559> deleted
>>> elnode-error: filter: handler returned on *elnode-webserver-proc*
>>> <127.0.0.1:39559>
>>> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
>>> *elnode-webserver-proc* <127.0.0.1:39560> with buffer nil
>>> ...
>>>
>>> However, it seems still to work somehow or at least there is something
>>> on the website.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. (require 'ox-ehtml), then open an Org-mode file and export with C-c C-e,
>>>> you should now see a normal html export of the file.
>>>
>>> Did you mean org-ehtml?
>>> Just wondering. Or did you mean org-export? Because trying to execute
>>> (require 'ox-ehtml) emacs can't find a file with this name,
>>> (require 'org-ethml) it complains of not being able to load org-export!
>>>
>>> Exporting a test file as HTML w (C-c C-e h o) however works.
>>>
>>> Hmm... I just notice, that org-export, which I can call despite it
>>> tells me org-export is missing, gives me the old exporter mask.
>>> Calling C-c C-e gives me the new mask.
>>> Checking for key-bindings C-c C-e runs the command org-export-dispatch.
>>> Maybe this gives you some idea?
>>> Just to give some more details
>>> I use
>>> Org-mode version 8.2.1 (8.2.1-3-g35e5e5-elpa @
>>> /home/torsten/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20131007/)
>>> GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.8.2) of
>>> 2013-08-07 on -mnt-storage-buildroots-staging-x86_64-eric
>>>
>>> Should I see another exporter after calling ox-ehtml?
>>>
>>> I guess the problem appears within the above step already.
>>>
>>> Any idea?
>>>
>>> Torsten

-- 
Eric Schulte
https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
PGP: 0x614CA05D

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

Hi Eric,

On 16 October 2013 15:55, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lets at least try to isolate the problem.  Could you try the following?
>
> 1. (require 'elnode), then point your browser to http://localhost:8000 where
> you should see a directory listing and a test.html file, clicking on the
> test.html file should show elnodes test web page.  If this doesn't work you
> don't have elnode installed correctly.
>
> 2. (require 'ox-ehtml), then open an Org-mode file and export with C-c C-e,
> you should now see a normal html export of the file.
>
> 3. (setq org-ehtml-everything-editable t), then re-export the file to
> editable html, you should now see [edit] buttons on most elements

Until here it worked somehow now. I had editable files already in step
2 but that might be because I somehow set the editable flag during
testing and playing with it.

> 4. (require 'org-ehtml) then (setq org-ehtml-docroot
> test-org-ehtml-example-dir), then (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port
> 8888) and browse to http://localhost:8888 where you should see a directory
> listing.  Clicking on the Org-mode files in that directory should yield
> editable versions which actually change on disk when edited.
>

That still fails with the same error message on the browser.
However, I found some info in the  *Message* buffer.

Entering debugger...
"/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
Mark set
((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>>) (8000 . #<process
*elnode-webserver-proc*>))
elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
*elnode-webserver-proc*<1> <127.0.0.1:60889> with buffer nil
elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
<127.0.0.1:60889> open from 127.0.0.1
elnode-error: filter: calling handler on *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
<127.0.0.1:60889>
elnode-error: filter: caught an error in the handling
elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'deleted.' for process
*elnode-webserver-proc*<1> <127.0.0.1:60889> with buffer
*elnode-request-60889*
elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
<127.0.0.1:60889> deleted
elnode-log-access: Symbol's function definition is void: aget


This missing aget function might be the problem?! I would need to test further.

Thanks for your help and suggestion

Torsten


> Could you try the above and let me know where it fails?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Eric,
>>
>> thanks for the reply. Unfortuantely, I still stuck with the same problem
>> after updating from ELPA.
>> If it works ok for you with the recent version of elnode and ehtml, I
>> might have to digg where my config is broken. I tried following the readmes
>> but the elnode server responeses with
>>
>> <h1>Server error</h1>
>>
>> at the website and I can't find any addtional error message in the logs.
>>
>> Thanks for help and support
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 October 2013 15:07, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Torsten,
>>>
>>> Sorry I missed your earlier email, I'm happy to hear that this package
>>> is being used for collaboration between Org-mode users and normal
>>> people.
>>>
>>> The org-ehtml package hadn't been updated in over a year, in the mean
>>> time the many changes have taken place in Org-mode (especially what was
>>> the "new" export framework becoming the "main" Org-mode export
>>> framework).
>>>
>>> I've just finished updating org-ehtml to work with current versions of
>>> Org-mode and elnode (and I've updated the ELPA package).  Please try
>>> with the latest version of org-ehtml and let me know if you run into
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> > Hi Eric,
>>> >
>>> > still trying to figure out whats wrong with my set-up. Did you had time
>>> > to
>>> > look intio it.
>>> > It seems somehow elnode does not play well anymore with the current
>>> > version
>>> > of ehtml.
>>> > Or something like this.
>>> > I can access elnodes standard services and I can create new services
>>> > like
>>> > described in the elnode wiki.
>>> > However, following the README of ehtml. I receive the early posted
>>> > error
>>> > message. This is not an emacs-based error or any sort of crash. It
>>> > seems to
>>> > be something which is "well" handled by elnodes error catching.
>>> >
>>> > Would be glad if you could give us some advice how to deal with that or
>>> > how
>>> > to test further. We are in the middle of setting up a groupware wiki.
>>> > Two
>>> > of us are org-mode users and the others do not really care what
>>> > markup-language that might have to use. Thus, it gives us the comfort
>>> > to
>>> > stick with org-mode and we only have to decide to go the ehtml/emacs
>>> > way or
>>> > the gollum/org-ruby way. Even more luckily this is not a decision
>>> > forever,
>>> > since the files remain to be native org-files on both systems, I
>>> > believe we
>>> > could switch at anytime.
>>> > This is again a nice example of the pure text based org-mode paradigm.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> >
>>> > Torsten
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 7 October 2013 17:02, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Eric,
>>> >>
>>> >> thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still
>>> >> actively
>>> >> maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
>>> >> people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse.
>>> >> On
>>> >> the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> Could you agree with the following comparison:
>>> >>
>>> >> * gollum
>>> >> - standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
>>> >> - can use different makeup-languages
>>> >> - can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about
>>> >> using
>>> >> Apache Webserver)
>>> >> - enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
>>> >> org-mode editor is available)
>>> >> - basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).
>>> >>
>>> >> * org-ehtml
>>> >> - part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
>>> >> - makes use of the new exporter
>>> >> - ...
>>> >>
>>> >> ... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
>>> >> I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)
>>> >>
>>> >> (ert "org-ehtml")
>>> >> ->
>>> >> Selector: "org-ehtml"
>>> >> Passed: 0
>>> >> Failed: 0
>>> >> Total:  0/0
>>> >>
>>> >> Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>>> >> Finished.
>>> >> Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>>> >>
>>> >> (setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
>>> >> ->
>>> >> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
>>> >>
>>> >> (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
>>> >> ->
>>> >> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
>>> >>
>>> >> When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
>>> >> http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:
>>> >>
>>> >> <h1>Server error</h1>
>>> >>
>>> >> No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.
>>> >>
>>> >> Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
>>> >> elnode README worked out ok
>>> >>
>>> >> (defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
>>> >>   "Demonstration function"
>>> >>   (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
>>> >>   (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))
>>> >>
>>> >> (elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function
>>> >> need some rewrite?
>>> >>
>>> >> All the best
>>> >>
>>> >> Torsten
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo
>>> >>> on
>>> >>> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode
>>> >>> pages
>>> >>> through a web page.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Cheers,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Footnotes:
>>> >>> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
>>> >>>
>>> >>> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Eric Schulte
>>> >>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>> >>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eric Schulte
>>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>
>>
>

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Eric Schulte]

>> 4. (require 'org-ehtml) then (setq org-ehtml-docroot
>> test-org-ehtml-example-dir), then (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port
>> 8888) and browse to http://localhost:8888 where you should see a directory
>> listing.  Clicking on the Org-mode files in that directory should yield
>> editable versions which actually change on disk when edited.
>>
>
> That still fails with the same error message on the browser.
> However, I found some info in the  *Message* buffer.
>
> Entering debugger...
> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
> Mark set
> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>>) (8000 . #<process
> *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'open from 127.0.0.1.' for process
> *elnode-webserver-proc*<1> <127.0.0.1:60889> with buffer nil
> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
> <127.0.0.1:60889> open from 127.0.0.1
> elnode-error: filter: calling handler on *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
> <127.0.0.1:60889>
> elnode-error: filter: caught an error in the handling
> elnode-error: elnode--sentinel 'deleted.' for process
> *elnode-webserver-proc*<1> <127.0.0.1:60889> with buffer
> *elnode-request-60889*
> elnode-error: Elnode status: *elnode-webserver-proc*<1>
> <127.0.0.1:60889> deleted
> elnode-log-access: Symbol's function definition is void: aget
>
>
> This missing aget function might be the problem?! I would need to test further.
>
> Thanks for your help and suggestion
>

It looks like you've uncovered a bug in elnode, namely that it uses the
`aget' function without first requiring the `assoc' package which
defines that function.  I bet if you first (require 'aget) and then
re-try you will not see this problem.

I've just opened an issue to this effect on the elnode github page [1].

Thanks,

>
> Torsten
>
>
>> Could you try the above and let me know where it fails?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Eric,
>>>
>>> thanks for the reply. Unfortuantely, I still stuck with the same problem
>>> after updating from ELPA.
>>> If it works ok for you with the recent version of elnode and ehtml, I
>>> might have to digg where my config is broken. I tried following the readmes
>>> but the elnode server responeses with
>>>
>>> <h1>Server error</h1>
>>>
>>> at the website and I can't find any addtional error message in the logs.
>>>
>>> Thanks for help and support
>>>
>>> Torsten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 October 2013 15:07, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Torsten,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I missed your earlier email, I'm happy to hear that this package
>>>> is being used for collaboration between Org-mode users and normal
>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> The org-ehtml package hadn't been updated in over a year, in the mean
>>>> time the many changes have taken place in Org-mode (especially what was
>>>> the "new" export framework becoming the "main" Org-mode export
>>>> framework).
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished updating org-ehtml to work with current versions of
>>>> Org-mode and elnode (and I've updated the ELPA package).  Please try
>>>> with the latest version of org-ehtml and let me know if you run into
>>>> problems.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Eric,
>>>> >
>>>> > still trying to figure out whats wrong with my set-up. Did you had time
>>>> > to
>>>> > look intio it.
>>>> > It seems somehow elnode does not play well anymore with the current
>>>> > version
>>>> > of ehtml.
>>>> > Or something like this.
>>>> > I can access elnodes standard services and I can create new services
>>>> > like
>>>> > described in the elnode wiki.
>>>> > However, following the README of ehtml. I receive the early posted
>>>> > error
>>>> > message. This is not an emacs-based error or any sort of crash. It
>>>> > seems to
>>>> > be something which is "well" handled by elnodes error catching.
>>>> >
>>>> > Would be glad if you could give us some advice how to deal with that or
>>>> > how
>>>> > to test further. We are in the middle of setting up a groupware wiki.
>>>> > Two
>>>> > of us are org-mode users and the others do not really care what
>>>> > markup-language that might have to use. Thus, it gives us the comfort
>>>> > to
>>>> > stick with org-mode and we only have to decide to go the ehtml/emacs
>>>> > way or
>>>> > the gollum/org-ruby way. Even more luckily this is not a decision
>>>> > forever,
>>>> > since the files remain to be native org-files on both systems, I
>>>> > believe we
>>>> > could switch at anytime.
>>>> > This is again a nice example of the pure text based org-mode paradigm.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks
>>>> >
>>>> > Torsten
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 7 October 2013 17:02, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi Eric,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> thanks for the email. I will give org-ehtml a try. Do you still
>>>> >> actively
>>>> >> maintain it. We would rely rather heavily on it ( a group of about 10
>>>> >> people) and I would be happy to know that I do not ride a dead horse.
>>>> >> On
>>>> >> the other hand you get a bunch of beta-testers ;)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Could you agree with the following comparison:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> * gollum
>>>> >> - standalone application, based on git and org-ruby.
>>>> >> - can use different makeup-languages
>>>> >> - can be integrated in a larger environment (read something about
>>>> >> using
>>>> >> Apache Webserver)
>>>> >> - enables the creation and editing of pages via webbrowser (a minimal
>>>> >> org-mode editor is available)
>>>> >> - basic settings of the theme (top, footer, sidebar).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> * org-ehtml
>>>> >> - part of org-mode requires emacs and elnode
>>>> >> - makes use of the new exporter
>>>> >> - ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ... because I tried to give it a test but it did not work out.
>>>> >> I tried a test instance via the following commands (and its outputs)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (ert "org-ehtml")
>>>> >> ->
>>>> >> Selector: "org-ehtml"
>>>> >> Passed: 0
>>>> >> Failed: 0
>>>> >> Total:  0/0
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Started at:   2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>>>> >> Finished.
>>>> >> Finished at:  2013-10-07 16:44:00+0200
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (setq org-ehtml-docroot "/home/torsten/test-wiki/")
>>>> >> ->
>>>> >> "/home/torsten/test-wiki/"
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (elnode-start 'org-ehtml-handler :port 8888)
>>>> >> ->
>>>> >> ((8888 . #<process *elnode-webserver-proc*>))
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When I start it according to the README, all I get when calling
>>>> >> http://localhost:8888/simple.org is:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> <h1>Server error</h1>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> No errors are given in any log-buffer I could find.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure where the problem appears. A test of elnode according to the
>>>> >> elnode README worked out ok
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (defun my-test-handler (httpcon)
>>>> >>   "Demonstration function"
>>>> >>   (elnode-http-start httpcon 200 '("Content-type" . "text/html"))
>>>> >>   (elnode-http-return httpcon "<html><b>HELLO!</b></html>"))
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (elnode-start 'my-test-handler :port 8010 :host "localhost")
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Might it be, that the elnode API changed and that the handler function
>>>> >> need some rewrite?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> All the best
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Torsten
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 4 October 2013 16:03, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Check out org-ehtml.  See the original announcement [1] and the repo
>>>> >>> on
>>>> >>> github [2].  It might need some attention as the Org-mode export API
>>>> >>> is
>>>> >>> constantly in flux, but it does work to allow editing of Org-mode
>>>> >>> pages
>>>> >>> through a web page.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Cheers,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Footnotes:
>>>> >>> [1]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/58773/focus=58884
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> [2]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Eric Schulte
>>>> >>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>>> >>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Eric Schulte
>>>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>>
>>>
>>


Footnotes: 
[1]  https://github.com/nicferrier/elnode/issues/79

-- 
Eric Schulte
https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
PGP: 0x614CA05D

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Nick Dokos]

Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> It looks like you've uncovered a bug in elnode, namely that it uses the
> `aget' function without first requiring the `assoc' package which
> defines that function.  I bet if you first (require 'aget) and then
> re-try you will not see this problem.
>

Should be (require 'assoc).

But IIRC, assoc is deprecated, so another solution will need to be
implemented in the longer term.

-- 
Nick

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Waldemar Quevedo]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3728 bytes --]

Hello Torsten,

> - Enhance org-ruby?
I would be glad to help out in this regard. About the completeness of the
implementation of the Org mode ruby parser, it would be very helpful for me
to have a set of examples that describe how each one of the features of Org
mode Emacs exporter should be rendered in to HTML.

I tried to do some work about this some time ago to identify the coverage
of Org ruby HTML exporting compared to the Org mode Emacs exporter:
https://github.com/wallyqs/org-mode-features/blob/master/features.org
https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/tree/master/spec/html_examples/
Is there a set of examples of all the features from Org mode anywhere?

By the way, recently Github has upgraded to the 0.8.1 version of the
org-ruby gem, so Org mode rendering to HTML should have improved a lot
(previous version they used was 0.5.3 so it took a while for them to
evaluate upgrading the gem).
https://github.com/github/markup/issues/186#issuecomment-25342870

Until I have identified the coverage, my current approach with developing
Org ruby is 'on demand', so if you find and issue please submit to the
issues tracker on Github: https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/issues

Cheers,

- Wally




On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
> recently I discovered gollumn [1] and was amazed to see that there is a
> software which allows non-orgers to work with / read my org-files and which
> even use git as the backend to get all save and nice together, even if
> working concurrently on the same files.
>
> I was wondering, because I never read about gollum in this ML and my
> search only revealed a very short three year old thread between Bastien and
> Eric Schulte. Despite that many of us was asking of possible ways how to
> use org as a groupware like environment. I guess this topic was discussed
> even more frequently over the last three years.
> Unfortunately, the main drawback, the usage of org-ruby [2] as org-mode
> parser still remains. I frighten that org-ruby only works on a small subset
> of the org-mode syntax and that even this might be a bit out-of-date. As
> far as I understood, org-mode in the meantime switched to a new exporter
> [3] and we got org-elements [4] and a heavy work towards standardization
> thanks to Nicolas Goaziou.
>
> What would be the best way to get the best out of the gollum idea and the
> new org-mode capabilities?
>
> - Skip gollumn and use (an updated) blorgit [5] (Does it have editor
> functionality?) ?
> - Enhance org-ruby?
> - Write a small script which creates a native html export from org-mode
> and hook this into gollumn? However, that would require emacs and org-mode
> being installed on the server side.
>
> For me gollums most important feature would be that people could use their
> web-browser and edit org-files. It might not be the most comfortable way of
> editing a org-file but a simple adding of a row into a table or rephrasing
> or adding a paragraph would be totally possible. It even might help to
> introduce people into using emacs and org-mode.
>
> It would be really nice to have such an easy access to org-files. Even
> hard-core orgers might like the idea to e.g. access and lightly modify
> there org-files on-the-go via smartphones and tablets without running a
> full emacs session. (I am aware of Mobileorg ;) )
>
> I got a bit into detail here to hopefully kick-off some discussions.
>
> All the best
>
> Torsten
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/gollum/gollum
> [2] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-ruby.html
> [3] http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html
> [4] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-element-api.html
> [5] http://orgmode.org/worg/blorgit.html
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6236 bytes --]

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

Dear Wally,
Dear Eric,

thanks for the replies and sorry for the long delay. Interesting that
there is an update on org-ruby just in the middle of my decision
pathway ;).
Until know I thought org-ruby is pretty much orphaned and that by time
it will start to fail on the growing changes done in org-mode.

On the other hand with all the help on the list I got org-ehtml
working now. It was indeed a missing requirement call (require 'assoc)
did the job.
Now I was able to test both gollumn and org-ehtml it puts me into a dilemma.

From user (esp. non-org-user) perspective gollumn seems much more
attractive. The editor is more user friendly for non-orgers and the
integrated git versioning is working pretty stable. Gollumn itself
seems to run on the shoulder of giants and keep itself rather small.
Overall, a quite positive impression. However, it depends on the
org-ruby package, which still understand only a subset of org-modes
features. It seems to me somehow a hunting task to keep track with the
fast pace of the org-mode development. This does not only include new
features but also slight differences between the original org-mode
export and the org-ruby parsing. It might be as simple as an extra
blank here or there, which can be quite troublesome form time to time.

e-html works great too. It is somehow a little bit more a web-based
editable org-mode, whereas gollumn is a wiki-system which supports
org-mode. org-html would do a perfect job for myself if I am the only
user for this wiki. However, I frighten that non-orgers have a harder
time to use it compare to gollumn. For some reason which I can't
explain, I feel a bit nervous about running  an emacs session
continuously on my server to provide a website. Not sure where the
fear comes from. Maybe it is just because of my bad elisp skills ;)
Overall, it works now and it does a good job but I can't avoid the
feeling that all of it might be a bit fragile (as it might brake on
arbitrarily changes on elnode, emacs, org-mode). However, it has the
great benefit to be 100% up-to-date with whatever org-mode supports
now or in the future and the output of a static page would be the same
as the dynamic page. I even could create PDF versions if needed e.g.
for static archiving.

I do not exactly now the intentions for org-ruby. Maybe Wally like to
elaborate on this. Maybe org-ruby can catch up faster with the new
exporter features of org-mode now that org-mode gets a more
standardized syntax.

At the moment, for me the best would be to combine both worlds
somehow. I notice that gollum allows to define/call new parsers. Would
it be possible to call emacs and start and html export on changes
saved in the webbrowser? In other words why not calling emacs directly
to do the html export? I would assume that the code which has to be
added to gollum would be minimal and the same would be true for the
few lines of lisp code to create the html page.

That would allow me to use the non-orger friendly gollumn and get the
same accurate result as I do with org-ehtml. However, it would only
call emacs from time to time instead of a constant emacs session
running.

Maybe this (sorry) very long mail helps me to get the best of both worlds ;)

Thanks for help and support

Torsten






On 16 October 2013 19:52, Waldemar Quevedo <waldemar.quevedo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Torsten,
>
>> - Enhance org-ruby?
> I would be glad to help out in this regard. About the completeness of the
> implementation of the Org mode ruby parser, it would be very helpful for me
> to have a set of examples that describe how each one of the features of Org
> mode Emacs exporter should be rendered in to HTML.
>
> I tried to do some work about this some time ago to identify the coverage of
> Org ruby HTML exporting compared to the Org mode Emacs exporter:
> https://github.com/wallyqs/org-mode-features/blob/master/features.org
> https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/tree/master/spec/html_examples/
> Is there a set of examples of all the features from Org mode anywhere?
>
> By the way, recently Github has upgraded to the 0.8.1 version of the
> org-ruby gem, so Org mode rendering to HTML should have improved a lot
> (previous version they used was 0.5.3 so it took a while for them to
> evaluate upgrading the gem).
> https://github.com/github/markup/issues/186#issuecomment-25342870
>
> Until I have identified the coverage, my current approach with developing
> Org ruby is 'on demand', so if you find and issue please submit to the
> issues tracker on Github: https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/issues
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Wally
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> recently I discovered gollumn [1] and was amazed to see that there is a
>> software which allows non-orgers to work with / read my org-files and which
>> even use git as the backend to get all save and nice together, even if
>> working concurrently on the same files.
>>
>> I was wondering, because I never read about gollum in this ML and my
>> search only revealed a very short three year old thread between Bastien and
>> Eric Schulte. Despite that many of us was asking of possible ways how to use
>> org as a groupware like environment. I guess this topic was discussed even
>> more frequently over the last three years.
>> Unfortunately, the main drawback, the usage of org-ruby [2] as org-mode
>> parser still remains. I frighten that org-ruby only works on a small subset
>> of the org-mode syntax and that even this might be a bit out-of-date. As far
>> as I understood, org-mode in the meantime switched to a new exporter [3] and
>> we got org-elements [4] and a heavy work towards standardization thanks to
>> Nicolas Goaziou.
>>
>> What would be the best way to get the best out of the gollum idea and the
>> new org-mode capabilities?
>>
>> - Skip gollumn and use (an updated) blorgit [5] (Does it have editor
>> functionality?) ?
>> - Enhance org-ruby?
>> - Write a small script which creates a native html export from org-mode
>> and hook this into gollumn? However, that would require emacs and org-mode
>> being installed on the server side.
>>
>> For me gollums most important feature would be that people could use their
>> web-browser and edit org-files. It might not be the most comfortable way of
>> editing a org-file but a simple adding of a row into a table or rephrasing
>> or adding a paragraph would be totally possible. It even might help to
>> introduce people into using emacs and org-mode.
>>
>> It would be really nice to have such an easy access to org-files. Even
>> hard-core orgers might like the idea to e.g. access and lightly modify there
>> org-files on-the-go via smartphones and tablets without running a full emacs
>> session. (I am aware of Mobileorg ;) )
>>
>> I got a bit into detail here to hopefully kick-off some discussions.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/gollum/gollum
>> [2] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-ruby.html
>> [3] http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html
>> [4] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-element-api.html
>> [5] http://orgmode.org/worg/blorgit.html
>
>

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Eric Schulte]

Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Wally,
> Dear Eric,
>
> thanks for the replies and sorry for the long delay. Interesting that
> there is an update on org-ruby just in the middle of my decision
> pathway ;).
> Until know I thought org-ruby is pretty much orphaned and that by time
> it will start to fail on the growing changes done in org-mode.
>
> On the other hand with all the help on the list I got org-ehtml
> working now. It was indeed a missing requirement call (require 'assoc)
> did the job.
> Now I was able to test both gollumn and org-ehtml it puts me into a dilemma.
>

Multiple viable options for Org-mode wikis is a great problem to have.

>
> From user (esp. non-org-user) perspective gollumn seems much more
> attractive. The editor is more user friendly for non-orgers and the
> integrated git versioning is working pretty stable.

See the "Integrating with version control" section of the org-ehtml
README [1].  It provides VC integration with just a couple of lines of
Emacs Lisp which could be added to the webserver's Emacs config.

> Gollumn itself seems to run on the shoulder of giants and keep itself
> rather small.

Org-ehtml is itself just a tiny hack which (I think) neatly combines the
power of the new Org export system, and the power of Elnode running on
top of a full fledged Emacs instance.  Org-ehtml is more than two orders
of magnitude smaller than gollum (judging by compressed source code).

    $ find gollum/lib -type f -exec cat {} \+|bzip2|wc -c 
    749992

    $ find org-ehtml/src -type f -exec cat {} \+|bzip2|wc -c
    6042

> Overall, a quite positive impression. However, it depends on the
> org-ruby package, which still understand only a subset of org-modes
> features. It seems to me somehow a hunting task to keep track with the
> fast pace of the org-mode development. This does not only include new
> features but also slight differences between the original org-mode
> export and the org-ruby parsing. It might be as simple as an extra
> blank here or there, which can be quite troublesome form time to time.
>
> e-html works great too. It is somehow a little bit more a web-based
> editable org-mode, whereas gollumn is a wiki-system which supports
> org-mode. org-html would do a perfect job for myself if I am the only
> user for this wiki. However, I frighten that non-orgers have a harder
> time to use it compare to gollumn. For some reason which I can't
> explain, I feel a bit nervous about running  an emacs session
> continuously on my server to provide a website. Not sure where the
> fear comes from. Maybe it is just because of my bad elisp skills ;)
> Overall, it works now and it does a good job but I can't avoid the
> feeling that all of it might be a bit fragile (as it might brake on
> arbitrarily changes on elnode, emacs, org-mode). However, it has the
> great benefit to be 100% up-to-date with whatever org-mode supports
> now or in the future and the output of a static page would be the same
> as the dynamic page. I even could create PDF versions if needed e.g.
> for static archiving.
>

Understood.  I hope I haven't wasted your time and I appreciated that
you got org-ehtml running.  Gollum is a very mature option, and is
probably your best bet unless you fall into one of the following.

1. need more esoteric features of Org-mode or
2. you like the idea of being able to run arbitrary Emacs Lisp as part
   of the editing process or
3. (like me) you don't have ruby installed on your system and a ruby web
   server seems like a lot of bloat for a wiki

The reason Gollum is so much larger is because it has a large team of
people adding the many handlers for edge cases and extra bells and
whistles which make for a robust tool.

My goal with org-ehtml was to produce a tiny working and (most
importantly) easily hackable core.  I don't have time to really flesh it
out myself, but I was/am hoping that someone interested in doing some
elisp and web programming would/will find it fun to extend the existing
proof-of-concept implementation.  I think it could easily grow into a
full featured Org-mode backed wiki, or online TODO tracker, or online
bug tracking database.

>
> I do not exactly now the intentions for org-ruby. Maybe Wally like to
> elaborate on this. Maybe org-ruby can catch up faster with the new
> exporter features of org-mode now that org-mode gets a more
> standardized syntax.
>
> At the moment, for me the best would be to combine both worlds
> somehow. I notice that gollum allows to define/call new parsers. Would
> it be possible to call emacs and start and html export on changes
> saved in the webbrowser? In other words why not calling emacs directly
> to do the html export? I would assume that the code which has to be
> added to gollum would be minimal and the same would be true for the
> few lines of lisp code to create the html page.
>

This would probably not be difficult.  You'd probably want to start an
EmacsClient instance when the web server boots, and then interact with
it through the command line.

>
> That would allow me to use the non-orger friendly gollumn and get the
> same accurate result as I do with org-ehtml. However, it would only
> call emacs from time to time instead of a constant emacs session
> running.
>

For speed reasons you'd probably still want the constant Emacs session
running, and you may open up many of the same security concerns.

>
> Maybe this (sorry) very long mail helps me to get the best of both
> worlds ;)
>

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for urging me to get org-ehtml
back up to date with the new Org-mode and elnode.

Best,

>
> Thanks for help and support
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16 October 2013 19:52, Waldemar Quevedo <waldemar.quevedo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Torsten,
>>
>>> - Enhance org-ruby?
>> I would be glad to help out in this regard. About the completeness of the
>> implementation of the Org mode ruby parser, it would be very helpful for me
>> to have a set of examples that describe how each one of the features of Org
>> mode Emacs exporter should be rendered in to HTML.
>>
>> I tried to do some work about this some time ago to identify the coverage of
>> Org ruby HTML exporting compared to the Org mode Emacs exporter:
>> https://github.com/wallyqs/org-mode-features/blob/master/features.org
>> https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/tree/master/spec/html_examples/
>> Is there a set of examples of all the features from Org mode anywhere?
>>
>> By the way, recently Github has upgraded to the 0.8.1 version of the
>> org-ruby gem, so Org mode rendering to HTML should have improved a lot
>> (previous version they used was 0.5.3 so it took a while for them to
>> evaluate upgrading the gem).
>> https://github.com/github/markup/issues/186#issuecomment-25342870
>>
>> Until I have identified the coverage, my current approach with developing
>> Org ruby is 'on demand', so if you find and issue please submit to the
>> issues tracker on Github: https://github.com/bdewey/org-ruby/issues
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Wally
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> recently I discovered gollumn [1] and was amazed to see that there is a
>>> software which allows non-orgers to work with / read my org-files and which
>>> even use git as the backend to get all save and nice together, even if
>>> working concurrently on the same files.
>>>
>>> I was wondering, because I never read about gollum in this ML and my
>>> search only revealed a very short three year old thread between Bastien and
>>> Eric Schulte. Despite that many of us was asking of possible ways how to use
>>> org as a groupware like environment. I guess this topic was discussed even
>>> more frequently over the last three years.
>>> Unfortunately, the main drawback, the usage of org-ruby [2] as org-mode
>>> parser still remains. I frighten that org-ruby only works on a small subset
>>> of the org-mode syntax and that even this might be a bit out-of-date. As far
>>> as I understood, org-mode in the meantime switched to a new exporter [3] and
>>> we got org-elements [4] and a heavy work towards standardization thanks to
>>> Nicolas Goaziou.
>>>
>>> What would be the best way to get the best out of the gollum idea and the
>>> new org-mode capabilities?
>>>
>>> - Skip gollumn and use (an updated) blorgit [5] (Does it have editor
>>> functionality?) ?
>>> - Enhance org-ruby?
>>> - Write a small script which creates a native html export from org-mode
>>> and hook this into gollumn? However, that would require emacs and org-mode
>>> being installed on the server side.
>>>
>>> For me gollums most important feature would be that people could use their
>>> web-browser and edit org-files. It might not be the most comfortable way of
>>> editing a org-file but a simple adding of a row into a table or rephrasing
>>> or adding a paragraph would be totally possible. It even might help to
>>> introduce people into using emacs and org-mode.
>>>
>>> It would be really nice to have such an easy access to org-files. Even
>>> hard-core orgers might like the idea to e.g. access and lightly modify there
>>> org-files on-the-go via smartphones and tablets without running a full emacs
>>> session. (I am aware of Mobileorg ;) )
>>>
>>> I got a bit into detail here to hopefully kick-off some discussions.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Torsten
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/gollum/gollum
>>> [2] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-ruby.html
>>> [3] http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html
>>> [4] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-element-api.html
>>> [5] http://orgmode.org/worg/blorgit.html
>>
>>


Footnotes: 
[1]  https://github.com/eschulte/org-ehtml/blob/master/README#L70

-- 
Eric Schulte
https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
PGP: 0x614CA05D

Re: org-mode based groupware wiki

[Torsten Wagner]

Dear Eric,

thanks for the reply.

>> Now I was able to test both gollumn and org-ehtml it puts me into a dilemma.
>>
>
> Multiple viable options for Org-mode wikis is a great problem to have.

Indeed it is as usual with FOSS all those pesty options to choice
from. Why couldn't I just trough my money to multi-billion dollar
companies and use whatever the selling department thought would be
best for me. Silly me.... ;)

> See the "Integrating with version control" section of the org-ehtml
> README [1].  It provides VC integration with just a couple of lines of
> Emacs Lisp which could be added to the webserver's Emacs config.

I didn't test this yet, but read about it. I will give it a try again.

>> Gollumn itself seems to run on the shoulder of giants and keep itself
>> rather small.
>
> Org-ehtml is itself just a tiny hack which (I think) neatly combines the
> power of the new Org export system, and the power of Elnode running on
> top of a full fledged Emacs instance.  Org-ehtml is more than two orders
> of magnitude smaller than gollum (judging by compressed source code).

Well indeed this was a stupid comparison. Sure org-ehtml is even
smaller and stands on the shoulder giants too, namely of org-mode and
emacs....

> Understood.  I hope I haven't wasted your time and I appreciated that
> you got org-ehtml running.  Gollum is a very mature option, and is
> probably your best bet unless you fall into one of the following.

Wasted my time?! ;) Are you kidding me. It was very informative and
fun. Seriously, I always enjoy having org-babel or in this case e-html
related problems, just for the joy I have to talk too you ;)
There is still no decision made yet and I guess it is even not a time
critical decision. Since both systems use org-mode files I could
easily switch between them any time later.

> 1. need more esoteric features of Org-mode or
I frighten looking at the feature test from Karl Voit
(https://github.com/novoid/github-orgmode-tests), the features need
not to be sooo esoteric at all.

> 2. you like the idea of being able to run arbitrary Emacs Lisp as part
>    of the editing process or
Yes you are right, thinking about, the advantage would be that I could
use all org-mode related code and do not need to reimplement it in any
other language. E.g., one could get a pretty printed table in text
form easily calling org-table-align, or convert copy and pasted CSV
data into a table calling org-table-convert. However, that would
require an extension of the current web-based editor.

> 3. (like me) you don't have ruby installed on your system and a ruby web
>    server seems like a lot of bloat for a wiki
Here I would need to give gollumn the credit that you can use another
web server as well e.g. apache should work.

> The reason Gollum is so much larger is because it has a large team of
> people adding the many handlers for edge cases and extra bells and
> whistles which make for a robust tool.

Sure, and please understand that I do not want to compare them
one-by-one. It wasn't my intention to do any ranking. Just looking for
the best solution for my task. If a 5-liner bash script from 1995
could do what I want I would be equally happy too ;)

> My goal with org-ehtml was to produce a tiny working and (most
> importantly) easily hackable core.  I don't have time to really flesh it
> out myself, but I was/am hoping that someone interested in doing some
> elisp and web programming would/will find it fun to extend the existing
> proof-of-concept implementation.  I think it could easily grow into a
> full featured Org-mode backed wiki, or online TODO tracker, or online
> bug tracking database.

I understand and I would be happy to be part of it. I simply need to
test a bit more which way to go. I like the idea to use emacs and the
"real" exporter. Just need to think of the non-orgers...

> For speed reasons you'd probably still want the constant Emacs session
> running, and you may open up many of the same security concerns.

Yep, I was thinking about that and thought already about a emacs
daemon running. You are right, that might put me into the same
situation I have using org-ehtml directly. Would it be
possible/reasonable to create something which use e.g. apache or
lighthttpd as webbrowser and some javascript to implement the editor
functions and emacs+org-mode purely to generate the html pages? Using
a well established webserver, would give me at least the illusion that
it might be safer. There are some editors implemented in javascript
already. Maybe one could use one of them?

I think it all condense down to the phrase I gave in my early post:

org-ehtml: org-mode with editable html export and a minimal webserver
gollumn: ruby-based wiki-system which supports (partially) org-mode syntax

Both are very different concepts with a different idea behind it.

Thanks again for all the infos and support

Torsten