From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id gCDJCflD1V4zcgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 18:07:53 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id sFysBflD1V4xIgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 18:07:53 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77C239404C8 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2020 18:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42998 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jfoqk-0003DJ-T3 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 14:07:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37174) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jfoqO-0003D9-6f for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 14:07:28 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]:37472) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jfoqN-0001UF-6C; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 14:07:27 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id mb16so10084011ejb.4; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:07:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ZWKxfKpSkg6upF8vE0DThPCOPoINp8478gehjeFxKPM=; b=CZYZQnBzeDdyEkzUGNxJzzo0A0tx4Bymvtgk5rWMHar85uUjaAQ7uCKZ38lY5glcWS aiZKSWqOIchhy1slZEG792BiPSJzcdIMz6K8dp9ysKVB2QkL7LbjlULXRH6E95jvvRle ASIr0X9w+9X7ZqVGIipjWPb3pKwws6mRMvV7o7Q7iLtQCD4HpOpx9NGTjD78EDCdMv3V 09oUh7644MUfqXAPXBEtmLhL/R+P4OoC0A9CuMy+DCGyZEavcbOrJBuecS8CkL6LSTBR WRG8TsSqAN9T2FDTVOCGc0prgoS3srz7s8BkjvJtnVjbGzME2Phy9li0ncBfBKHeJzlS SefQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZWKxfKpSkg6upF8vE0DThPCOPoINp8478gehjeFxKPM=; b=L4/4cBGEF26mRcSOiUNtBpw1L9We0Q8B3jio+GOHArP9A7eI63xmiJ2N2ySuevaL5c vvqLo7kbYBjGqVFSMdCNYXK0nZ9n+tMy4RnIb2alfimYqtLlTeJ+VcAOK8CH+mqBPDbu 17+lckAN2038pVs7KFO5vPgUg5RvFWwMqDD/gQMupMVCKGgE3AUxO1d4uktXIAR2kX1y 1hJUFaJ3cXtmMQnGZtLOt4W4tJxuse/xBU36KbkuYzt6UoLVH/u34JVsHfM+MbVGAY4C 02iSduYPDRKkpYGOKRTSBn/fPCgXfdb/dieuZzMauuEny7wc+181S1I6Pi6uPM9lIvrx eWPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530O07M/j9+pDFubHLQQt87SpveU3XnmuTwVZfnZe7Jov4TsEGRn ZgojvCOgmveW7VPUoowpNKKXsJlCb7TnZFl8VH2Pfw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGDHRJdNq9vZWcY6tOZ2CMP4M7qXxRMdTctcEuH49nV6Fh8EBYO0H7eaVCxHwNy+HWozD2Tvgp7DdEEZmtdnk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b1c3:: with SMTP id bv3mr3988187ejb.292.1591034844212; Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:07:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a50:7b57:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Jun 2020 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87eeqyes8h.fsf@bzg.fr> References: <87blnqx3ev.fsf@alphapapa.net> <87eeqyes8h.fsf@bzg.fr> From: Adam Porter Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 13:07:23 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: VSzOVVZ0ydy0Q5fSZGEN2EtiWSg Message-ID: Subject: Re: Policy proposal: Do not move existing functions/macros except in major version increments To: Bastien Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62a; envelope-from=alphadeltapapa@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=CZYZQnBz; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.01 X-TUID: m2xIj4LfBP1m Hi Bastien, On 6/1/20, Bastien wrote: > Hi Adam, > > Adam Porter writes: > >> The relatively recent moving of org-get-outline-path to org-refile.el >> has caused breakage in Org itself in several places, e.g. >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00260.html >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00259.html >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00261.html > > ahem, my bad. I made this bold (and wrong) move, and I broke code out > of org-mode. > > I understand your proposal, and it's always good to be reminded that > many people depend on Org's code out there. It is not easy to spend > time working on Org *and* tracking all these interesting extensions. Of course, no one could be expected to keep track of all those things. Such is the nature of writing software that runs in a Lisp image, where anyone can use anything, and does. > I agree with Nicolas that we should not put more constraints on the > shoulders of Org current developers, especially because their time is > limited - and obviously not enough to cope with every request. I mostly agree with you. My request is simply that, when a change has the potential to break third-party packages, and it's a change, such as this one, that mostly moves code around for organizational purposes, that it be delayed until the next major version. My goal for such a policy would be to reduce the frequency of such changes that third-party package authors have to write compatibility code for. The (if (version< org-version ...)) workarounds become confusing for authors and users, and somewhat of a maintenance burden. > That said, we can make it easier for third-party developers to know > what changes will be released in the future. > > See the "Upcoming changes" in https://updates.orgmode.org > > You can subscribe to this RSS feed: > https://updates.orgmode.org/feed/changes > > Or check the data directly: > https://updates.orgmode.org/data/changes > > To announce the change you see, I just used this email header: > > X-Woof-Change: 9092c289 9.4 > > That is the commit number where the change happens and the version > in which the change will be released. > > The list of upcoming changes is emptied when a new major released is > done, because the changes are then advertized in this file, as usual: > https://orgmode.org/Changes.html > > I think that's a tiny distributed effort for developers and a easy > way to track changes for third-party developers. That's a very clever way to do it! Thanks for your work on this. If it's feasible, you might also consider allowing committers to put such a header in the git commit log and parsing it out of that, which could make it even easier. Thanks, Adam