From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Matt Price Subject: Re: [RFC] Document level property drawer Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 22:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87eezxrcwv.fsf@alphapapa.net> <84tv8tjywm.fsf@gmail.com> <87pnjgk1tz.fsf@alphapapa.net> <84eezvmodx.fsf@gmail.com> <87muehbt5x.fsf@alphapapa.net> <847e5kixdl.fsf@gmail.com> <87y2xy4rau.fsf@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a301ac059436f4e1" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56159) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iGyoa-0003Zh-2S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 01:10:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGyoY-0007cw-QA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 01:10:40 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]:41683) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGyoY-0007c8-IN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 01:10:38 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id t3so296221pga.8 for ; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 22:10:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y2xy4rau.fsf@alphapapa.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Adam Porter Cc: Org Mode --000000000000a301ac059436f4e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat., Oct. 5, 2019, 6:10 p.m. Adam Porter, wrote: > Marco Wahl writes: > > > Just I got the idea that for a good part this discussion is about > > personal preferences. > > Personal preferences are relevant to this issue in that Org is flexible > and allows users to configure it accordingly. But that is not the only > consideration at stake. Consistency, compatibility, and longevity are > even more important. > > > What I really find irritating is that "Org ... allows #+KEYWORD: lines > > to appear anywhere in a file" (This sentence is from you) with the > > meaning that the settings apply to the whole file. I think this > > interpretation of #+KEYWORD: lines is unnecessary and confusing. > > Regardless, that is the way Org works, and how it has for many years. > We can't break that. > I'd like to just quickly chime in in support of Adam's caution on this issue. I can absolutely see advantages to document level properties, I have written many code fragments that rely on the use of keywords and expect org filensyntax to be consistent with what actually exists. I use these code fragments to hold together a somewhat fragile workflow that allows me to use org in a work environment that is not especially receptive to simple text documents. I have invested a lot of time in making those systems run and sometimes even I don't entirely remember what I did to make them possible. It would really, really suck to have those systems break. It would take me a lot of time to track down the causes and change what I needed to. VMs that currently pull in Emacs andnorg and my code would stop working. Old versions of my files would no longer render properly. My efforts to make my courses and other writings effectively reproducible by others would be significantly set back. Etc. I think these are the kinds of difficulties Adam means to describe. > > --000000000000a301ac059436f4e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat., Oct. 5, 2019, 6:10 p.m. Adam Porter, <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.co= m> writes:

> Just I got the idea that for a good part this discussion is about
> personal preferences.

Personal preferences are relevant to this issue in that Org is flexible
and allows users to configure it accordingly.=C2=A0 But that is not the onl= y
consideration at stake.=C2=A0 Consistency, compatibility, and longevity are=
even more important.

> What I really find irritating is that "Org ... allows #+KEYWORD: = lines
> to appear anywhere in a file" (This sentence is from you) with th= e
> meaning that the settings apply to the whole file.=C2=A0 I think this<= br> > interpretation of #+KEYWORD: lines is unnecessary and confusing.

Regardless, that is the way Org works, and how it has for many years.
We can't break that.

=
I'd like to just=C2=A0 quickly chime in in supp= ort of Adam's caution on this issue. I can absolutely see advantages to= document level properties, I have written many code fragments that rely on= the use of keywords and expect org filensyntax to be consistent with what = actually exists. I use these code fragments to hold together a somewhat fra= gile workflow that allows me to use org in a work environment that is not e= specially receptive to simple text documents. I have invested a lot of time= in making those systems run and sometimes even I don't entirely rememb= er what I did to make them possible.

It would really, really suck to have those systems break. It w= ould take me a lot of time to track down the causes and change what I neede= d to. VMs that currently pull in Emacs andnorg and my code would stop worki= ng. Old versions of my files would no longer render properly. My efforts to= make my courses and other writings effectively reproducible by others woul= d be significantly set back. Etc. I think these are the kinds of difficulti= es Adam means to describe.=C2=A0

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