[OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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Hi list,

I've found a pretty interesting piece of software today. It's called Xiki,
check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be

I'm wondering it something like that could be done with emacs (and possibly
integrating orgmode to add the outlining features)?

That could be interesting.

Just food for thought,

Cheers!

- Marcelo.

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Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Bastien]

Hi Marcelo,

Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be
>
> I'm wondering it something like that could be done with emacs (and
> possibly integrating orgmode to add the outlining features)?

* [[shell:ls -l]]

* shell:pwd

... etc etc.

I think pretty all the features described here are already available
with some elisp.  

The basic idea is that the command prompt and the results are of the
same kind: text you can edit, and that can produce an output... that you
can further reuse as a command.  Which is the core idea of Org.

If there is any specific feature displayed in the video that seems
useful for Org, let us know.

My 2 cents,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Eden Cardim]

>>>>> "Marcelo" == Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:

    Marcelo> Hi list, I've found a pretty interesting piece of
    Marcelo> software today. It's called Xiki, check out the video:

    Marcelo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be

    Marcelo> I'm wondering it something like that could be done with
    Marcelo> emacs (and possibly integrating orgmode to add the
    Marcelo> outlining features)?

It's already done in emacs, see https://github.com/trogdoro/xiki

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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@Bastien, Yeah, I've been thinking about the link approach or perhaps
babel, thank you for the suggestions!

@Eden, That's awesome! Looks like I didn't do the proper research...

Thank you guys,

- Marcelo.

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Eden Cardim <eden@insoli.de> wrote:

> >>>>> "Marcelo" == Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>
>     Marcelo> Hi list, I've found a pretty interesting piece of
>     Marcelo> software today. It's called Xiki, check out the video:
>
>     Marcelo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be
>
>     Marcelo> I'm wondering it something like that could be done with
>     Marcelo> emacs (and possibly integrating orgmode to add the
>     Marcelo> outlining features)?
>
> It's already done in emacs, see https://github.com/trogdoro/xiki
>
>
>

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Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Luis Anaya]

Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi list,
>
> I've found a pretty interesting piece of software today. It's called Xiki,
> check out the video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be

It's interesting, but it has its challenges. I tried to install it to
play with it and... well, it's still there in zombie mode; I've not
followed through with it.

This is what I found out: 

1. Requires ruby and uses el4r. That by itself is not bad, but it is
overhead to run the application. The installation process is a
chore. I'm not a ruby programmer although I'm familiar with the
language. Other than I had to compile ruby from source (which is not
bad) trying to get it to work within el4r is not straightforward. If you
do not know ruby or el4r, it does complicates its installation.

2. Uses emacs or vim or some other editors in experimental mode, and I 
think that it's limited to graphic mode. I tried to run it from the
console and I got a "Face -9" error. So, what good is a shell if you
can't run it from the console?  It might have been pilot error but makes
me wonder.

3. I think that Bastien mention that items can be done in babel being
that it allows to get data form different sources. 

In terms of its interface, it's pretty nifty, but the real magic happens
because it's running within an editor. 

My 2 cents... 



-- 
Luis Anaya
papo anaya aroba hot mail punto com
"Do not use 100 words if you can say it in 10" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Andrew Hyatt]

The xiki video is interesting, and I immediately thought of babel.
However, babel sh-mode doesn't have support for execution yet. Even if
it did, it wouldn't be a really good alternative, due to babel's
verbosity.

One idea is to have a babel subtree (or buffer) that is keyed to a
specific language, so that everything under it is assumed to be an
executable statement.  Something like:

* Project A
** Shell
   :PROPERTIES:
   :BABEL-TYPE: sh
   :END:

ls
  - file1
  - file2
  - file3

run_server
  ouput-buffer

** Next thing

Where the files and output-buffer are linked.  The interaction within
the BABEL-TYPE heading would be similar to the *scratch* buffer, just
execute and it gives you the result immediately below.  Except the
result should work be org-output, and linked when appropriate.

Babel would be handling this, but it wouldn't need the boilerplate for
each command, or each output.

The idea to use [[shell:ls]] and things like that is also useful, but
right now the output goes to a different buffer, and is not otherwise
tied in with org-mode.  This is why I think babel might be a better
fit for this type of functionality.


On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> Hi Marcelo,
>
> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=youtu.be
>>
>> I'm wondering it something like that could be done with emacs (and
>> possibly integrating orgmode to add the outlining features)?
>
> * [[shell:ls -l]]
>
> * shell:pwd
>
> ... etc etc.
>
> I think pretty all the features described here are already available
> with some elisp.
>
> The basic idea is that the command prompt and the results are of the
> same kind: text you can edit, and that can produce an output... that you
> can further reuse as a command.  Which is the core idea of Org.
>
> If there is any specific feature displayed in the video that seems
> useful for Org, let us know.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> --
>  Bastien
>

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Sean O'Halpin]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> The xiki video is interesting, and I immediately thought of babel.
> However, babel sh-mode doesn't have support for execution yet.

Not sure what you mean by that. Place cursor in source block and hit C-c, e.g.

#+BEGIN_ORG
* Shell example

#+begin_src sh
date
#+end_src

#+RESULTS:
: Wed Sep 19 07:24:17 BST 2012

#+END_ORG

Regards,
Sean

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Bastien]

Luis Anaya <papoanaya@hotmail.com> writes:

> In terms of its interface, it's pretty nifty, but the real magic happens
> because it's running within an editor. 

Exactly.  

It'd be somehow ironical for Emacs to mimic the features of a software
that uses an editor to mimic the features of a shell, especially given
the fact many consider Emacs an operating system.

:)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Andrew Hyatt]

That's odd, I get "No org-babel-execute function for sh!".  I think I
just hadn't require'd ob-sh, and when I did this fixed the problem.
Thanks!

My point about removing the boilerplate still stands, however.  If I
have some free time in the next month, I may try to see if I can get
it removed as I proposed above.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Sean O'Halpin <sean.ohalpin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The xiki video is interesting, and I immediately thought of babel.
>> However, babel sh-mode doesn't have support for execution yet.
>
> Not sure what you mean by that. Place cursor in source block and hit C-c, e.g.
>
> #+BEGIN_ORG
> * Shell example
>
> #+begin_src sh
> date
> #+end_src
>
> #+RESULTS:
> : Wed Sep 19 07:24:17 BST 2012
>
> #+END_ORG
>
> Regards,
> Sean
>

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Torsten Wagner]

hi,

I gave Xiki a try and it turned out to be an dependency hell on arch
linux. After installing dozen of packages from AUR, I managed to get
it up and running.
Its nice and some of the ideas could be shamelessly stolen for
org/org-babel. E.g. the mouse-support is great and would fit well to
org if we think of emacs on tablets.

However, I think it is in a very very early stage and one would need
to see how it develops. I do not like the ruby-bridge. This looks to
me very fragile and I had bad experience with python. Those bridges
tend to break whenever there is a change on one of the sides ext.
language or emacs. It also changed the entire appearance resp. face of
my emacs session not sure why it did this. Feels a bit invasive and
alienating.

Nevertheless, its good that this kind of things get tested out and
maybe in a future release of Emacs, we can see some of the ideas in
the Emacs core.

Totti



On 20 September 2012 06:49, Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's odd, I get "No org-babel-execute function for sh!".  I think I
> just hadn't require'd ob-sh, and when I did this fixed the problem.
> Thanks!
>
> My point about removing the boilerplate still stands, however.  If I
> have some free time in the next month, I may try to see if I can get
> it removed as I proposed above.
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Sean O'Halpin <sean.ohalpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The xiki video is interesting, and I immediately thought of babel.
>>> However, babel sh-mode doesn't have support for execution yet.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by that. Place cursor in source block and hit C-c, e.g.
>>
>> #+BEGIN_ORG
>> * Shell example
>>
>> #+begin_src sh
>> date
>> #+end_src
>>
>> #+RESULTS:
>> : Wed Sep 19 07:24:17 BST 2012
>>
>> #+END_ORG
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sean
>>
>

Re: [OT] Xiki - could something like that be done with emacs+orgmode?

[Eric Schulte]

Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com> writes:

> That's odd, I get "No org-babel-execute function for sh!".  I think I
> just hadn't require'd ob-sh, and when I did this fixed the problem.
> Thanks!
>

For security reasons evaluation is not turned on by default.  The
relevant chapter of the manual is a very good resource [1].

>
> My point about removing the boilerplate still stands, however.  If I
> have some free time in the next month, I may try to see if I can get
> it removed as I proposed above.
>

You can insert code-block templates by typing <s TAB, and there exists
other methods of expressing code blocks (e.g., inline code blocks).

If you do want to experiment with different syntax, it should be fairly
easy to write a function which parses some sparse code syntax near the
point and then calls existing org-babel-execute functions to run the
code.  For example the following function will check to see if the
current line starts with a "$", and if so, it will run the line in your
shell and insert the result immediately following the line.

    ;; -*- emacs-lisp -*-
    (defun sparse-execute ()
      (interactive)
      (save-excursion
        (goto-char (point-at-bol))
        (if (string= (thing-at-point 'char) "$")
            (let ((result (org-babel-execute:sh
                           (substring (thing-at-point 'line) 1) '())))
              (goto-char (point-at-eol))
              (open-line 1) (forward-char 1)
              (let ((beg (point)))
                (insert (format "%s" result))
                (org-babel-examplize-region beg (point))))
          (error "this line doesn't look executable"))))

Cheers,

Footnotes: 
[1]  http://orgmode.org/manual/Working-With-Source-Code.html

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte