making coloured tables

making coloured tables

[Andras Major]

Hi there,

I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality
and would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and
gnumeric impractically cumbersome.

What I want are two slightly diffent things:

- Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
exported as HTML or PDF.

- Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface
details (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells
themselves or other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative
numerical values of a table with a red background.)

Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
settings in .emacs.

Is this possible with org-mode?

Thanks,

  András

Re: making coloured tables

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Andras,

Andras Major wrote:
> I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality
> and would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and
> gnumeric impractically cumbersome.
>
> What I want are two slightly diffent things:
>
> - Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
> exported as HTML or PDF.
>
> - Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface
> details (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells
> themselves or other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative
> numerical values of a table with a red background.)
>
> Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
> settings in .emacs.

I add wishes on the above list. Maybe someone will be able to implement them,
if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some automagic style
(background) applied on the cells to distinguish:

- the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they don't
  have any formula associated with them

- the final result cells: the ones with computed results

- the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to other
  cells.

Would these be in different colors, I think it would make the reading of
tables much more efficient. And, as far as I know, this does not exist yet in
tools like Excel -- though people can manually apply such color conventions.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: making coloured tables

[Daniel Clemente]

El Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:30:19 +0200 Sebastien Vauban va escriure:
> if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some automagic style
> (background) applied on the cells to distinguish:
> 
> - the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they don't
>   have any formula associated with them
> 
> - the final result cells: the ones with computed results
> 
> - the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to other
>   cells.
> 

  This would be very useful. I see 3 types of cells (apart from headers, comment rows, etc.):
- cells not affected by formulae
- cells used in some formula calculation
- cells whose value was written by a formula (some of them may also be of the second type)

Re: making coloured tables

[Bastien]

Dear all,

I welcome discussions about features in this area, but please be
aware this is something I will not be hacking into in the next two
months.

So, if someone wants to take this in charge and to propose a design
and an implementation, please do!

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: making coloured tables

[Andras Major]

Hi Sebastian,

> Andras Major wrote:
>> I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality
>> and would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and
>> gnumeric impractically cumbersome.
>>
>> What I want are two slightly diffent things:
>>
>> - Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
>> exported as HTML or PDF.
>>
>> - Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface
>> details (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells
>> themselves or other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative
>> numerical values of a table with a red background.)
>>
>> Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
>> settings in .emacs.
>
> I add wishes on the above list. Maybe someone will be able to implement
> them,
> if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some automagic
> style
> (background) applied on the cells to distinguish:
>
> - the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they
> don't
>   have any formula associated with them
>
> - the final result cells: the ones with computed results
>
> - the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to other
>   cells.
>
> Would these be in different colors, I think it would make the reading of
> tables much more efficient. And, as far as I know, this does not exist yet
> in
> tools like Excel -- though people can manually apply such color conventions.

I was thinking along slightly different lines. We have a customizable
<td> tag in HTML export already, but that customization isn't very
flexible. If we could have something like a <td> tag that can be set
from values in the table, or by Lisp code, then I think that would
solve my problems. It's important, however, that setting the export
tag must be local to the Org file so I can set it there instead of the
global .emacs.

  András

Re: making coloured tables

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Andras,

Andras Major wrote:
>> Andras Major wrote:
>>> I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality and
>>> would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and gnumeric
>>> impractically cumbersome.
>>>
>>> What I want are two slightly diffent things:
>>>
>>> - Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
>>>   exported as HTML or PDF.
>>>
>>> - Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface details
>>>   (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells themselves or
>>>   other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative numerical values
>>>   of a table with a red background.)
>>>
>>> Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
>>> settings in .emacs.
>>
>> I add wishes on the above list. Maybe someone will be able to implement
>> them, if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some
>> automagic style (background) applied on the cells to distinguish:
>>
>> - the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they
>>   don't have any formula associated with them
>>
>> - the final result cells: the ones with computed results
>>
>> - the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to other
>>   cells.
>>
>> Would these be in different colors, I think it would make the reading of
>> tables much more efficient. And, as far as I know, this does not exist yet
>> in tools like Excel -- though people can manually apply such color
>> conventions.
>
> I was thinking along slightly different lines. We have a customizable <td>
> tag in HTML export already, but that customization isn't very flexible. If
> we could have something like a <td> tag that can be set from values in the
> table, or by Lisp code, then I think that would solve my problems.

My above feature of the wishlist isn't for export -- I misread your original
post. Just speaking of editing feature in the Org buffer, for giving more
insight on formulas in tables.

These "color features" weren't intended IMHO for export. So the 2 "problems"
are in fact apart from each other.

> It's important, however, that setting the export tag must be local to the
> Org file so I can set it there instead of the global .emacs.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: making coloured tables

[Andras Major]

I have an idea how my feature could be implemented, and it consists of
two parts.

- introduce a special row, or extend the "/" type used for colgroup
and narrowing, to specify hidden (non-export) columns and special tag
columns;

- in that special row, there are two new special entries, say "T<" and
"T>" which specify that the contents of each cell in that column
should be exported into the <td> tag of the cell to the left or to the
right.

This way, the <td> tag can be set from within the table for each
relevant cell. The only drawback is that all this is backend-specific,
it only works for HTML, not for PDF in the way I've just described.

  András


On 8/1/11, Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> wrote:
> Hi Andras,
>
> Andras Major wrote:
>>> Andras Major wrote:
>>>> I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality
>>>> and
>>>> would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and gnumeric
>>>> impractically cumbersome.
>>>>
>>>> What I want are two slightly diffent things:
>>>>
>>>> - Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
>>>>   exported as HTML or PDF.
>>>>
>>>> - Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface
>>>> details
>>>>   (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells themselves
>>>> or
>>>>   other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative numerical values
>>>>   of a table with a red background.)
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
>>>> settings in .emacs.
>>>
>>> I add wishes on the above list. Maybe someone will be able to implement
>>> them, if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some
>>> automagic style (background) applied on the cells to distinguish:
>>>
>>> - the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they
>>>   don't have any formula associated with them
>>>
>>> - the final result cells: the ones with computed results
>>>
>>> - the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to other
>>>   cells.
>>>
>>> Would these be in different colors, I think it would make the reading of
>>> tables much more efficient. And, as far as I know, this does not exist
>>> yet
>>> in tools like Excel -- though people can manually apply such color
>>> conventions.
>>
>> I was thinking along slightly different lines. We have a customizable <td>
>> tag in HTML export already, but that customization isn't very flexible. If
>> we could have something like a <td> tag that can be set from values in the
>> table, or by Lisp code, then I think that would solve my problems.
>
> My above feature of the wishlist isn't for export -- I misread your original
> post. Just speaking of editing feature in the Org buffer, for giving more
> insight on formulas in tables.
>
> These "color features" weren't intended IMHO for export. So the 2 "problems"
> are in fact apart from each other.
>
>> It's important, however, that setting the export tag must be local to the
>> Org file so I can set it there instead of the global .emacs.
>
> Best regards,
>   Seb
>
> --
> Sebastien Vauban
>
>
>

Re: making coloured tables

[Bastien]

Hi Andras,

Andras Major <andras.g.major@gmail.com> writes:

> I have an idea how my feature could be implemented, and it consists of
> two parts.

Thanks for bringing up these ideas -- just to make things clear: I'm 
not volunteering for implementing this, my knowledge of org tables is
falling a bit short here.

Best,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: making coloured tables

[Rainer M Krug]

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On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com
> wrote:

> Hi Andras,
>
> Andras Major wrote:
> >> Andras Major wrote:
> >>> I'm really intrigued by org-mode's table and spreadsheet functionality
> and
> >>> would like to use it for those cases where I found excel and gnumeric
> >>> impractically cumbersome.
> >>>
> >>> What I want are two slightly diffent things:
> >>>
> >>> - Make tables that have cells with individual background colours when
> >>>   exported as HTML or PDF.
> >>>
> >>> - Make tables that have cells with background colours and typeface
> details
> >>>   (bold, italic, etc.) based on contents of either the cells themselves
> or
> >>>   other cells in the table. (Example: mark all negative numerical
> values
> >>>   of a table with a red background.)
> >>>
> >>> Furthermore, the colouring should be portable, i.e. independent of the
> >>> settings in .emacs.
> >>
> >> I add wishes on the above list. Maybe someone will be able to implement
> >> them, if they seem to make sense... So, here's my idea: having some
> >> automagic style (background) applied on the cells to distinguish:
> >>
> >> - the input cells (the ones you cannot delete... without troubles): they
> >>   don't have any formula associated with them
> >>
> >> - the final result cells: the ones with computed results
> >>
> >> - the other ones, whose content is computed, but serves as input to
> other
> >>   cells.
> >>
> >> Would these be in different colors, I think it would make the reading of
> >> tables much more efficient. And, as far as I know, this does not exist
> yet
> >> in tools like Excel -- though people can manually apply such color
> >> conventions.
> >
> > I was thinking along slightly different lines. We have a customizable
> <td>
> > tag in HTML export already, but that customization isn't very flexible.
> If
> > we could have something like a <td> tag that can be set from values in
> the
> > table, or by Lisp code, then I think that would solve my problems.
>
> My above feature of the wishlist isn't for export -- I misread your
> original
> post. Just speaking of editing feature in the Org buffer, for giving more
> insight on formulas in tables.
>

I think that would be very useful feature to be included - I trashed a few
times already (fairly simple) tables because of modifying formula cells....

Cheers,

Rainer




> These "color features" weren't intended IMHO for export. So the 2
> "problems"
> are in fact apart from each other.
>
> > It's important, however, that setting the export tag must be local to the
> > Org file so I can set it there instead of the global .emacs.
>
> Best regards,
>  Seb
>
> --
> Sebastien Vauban
>
>
>


-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology,
UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :       +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
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email:      Rainer@krugs.de

Skype:      RMkrug

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