From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id IJqfFN+4pmGnzQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 00:50:55 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id qOFbEN+4pmEnFwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 23:50:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A93C42F246 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2021 00:50:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45882 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1msCth-0002wd-B7 for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:50:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46168) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1msCtC-0002wJ-EV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:50:22 -0500 Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::136] (port=43741 helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1msCtA-0006Nt-EW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:50:22 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id b40so58053075lfv.10 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:50:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b9gLlj8s9TOLD3ELRa746zrRrObf7U2TGIs7DlEJr4k=; b=Eu2AnP45mze9G5m21uMKO0ag/46F1J7kokyJFIINgmAKwYXx7JSuDtAzBTVidCJkWX s16UF8wcdf0B850LKuD4XaEvTgZ6o2NIC4icbw4YZvJy5LeG9aOfvgbEP+YYaxIbdZzm ui3NNbFTwXx3y+mT/j+i+gJmqxBPAKT6YKNcKVP2HiKB4qP0oNWa7CW5PRW6XQey2Ep7 DqtMczHOSfav0D9tVGK37Dus1EKsr9t3FzCiEd9VzmNy17JHUNaUFsuPT7/dn7GRW+ZQ Fzx+68DMvowTvZ5Dtwej45Xm+tZjWmzza95p8mqLUK3gpRlTZT/CQNh9Vc+7j/9wIrDK +NpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b9gLlj8s9TOLD3ELRa746zrRrObf7U2TGIs7DlEJr4k=; b=sFvDf9JBfqoyPLytevHZ2Wuo5y0RwuOdxIt36xQNa69Tr3pWjNujgq7CbLyVbbZZa6 KmC4lMA8NqavZvxWgjAYdaq8rVpfWZd3z3VcgYoZIKQ3jNn/cBRvBW66bSZI7VhC2w1W enCr6dCzct42Z0x6gApaZPmk5XeJ9zhKFqOqJa2mWERkVc+eDdO7fXJjAUS9QcTJHdRS GHKYDGwDHMvcbUXLHhyngZMJ281BT88vxGOAqIf9OjgKQwXVETogM+vm/yt+hraawlJf EX5RV2upjrJqTlS3IZWf0If5OCkP9UVzxrR7Mq2+8bLD9MI0F5C8JtHDf8tSFG5XAT7O aQqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rLM1wk47UO6rbyhhvaQ5p9pFwqTPdxR/PDzgZGgf5VbbDn1YU z1EJ8vGprCv1d73MkRwfXBB/Wg/oG+Nxck2/B/M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwABW3D/UDYR/TOKXVzaJzdebeqKF0DIXIatM9efXQI+AWas7d+xZns6pLza5/TYpw6kP777o2UUd/WrLUD4ow= X-Received: by 2002:a19:dc1a:: with SMTP id t26mr2295180lfg.315.1638316217908; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:50:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:1912:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:50:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2021-11-28T20-44-37@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <2021-11-28T20-44-37@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> From: Samuel Wales Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 16:50:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode To: Karl Voit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::136 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=samologist@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638316254; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=b9gLlj8s9TOLD3ELRa746zrRrObf7U2TGIs7DlEJr4k=; b=KM5cLi2lF0RuFCr5kvsW8dr6+HJolN0k/rwk4FoBbT0AzLcCV9PMu+bdcmDfN52s/otHTl gsxwkaFK5EOquNO80TDFXAMAmkzceXpLta6S99dRc5YkwdCtlT9oTCk4DyOPEhM+pDrOwv x8/7M4lelU7pbO3NOrlEg8umqS6DW34vC++2swk4+FERR4RieVd1IwTHZnByFj6mjk6Rdl QEEht1rX52ZOao6/+xHAV3d/FFyzD+TWxm+nAxSSZR3UpyKJPgbgU9DF3zpne9G2WSMJc4 5gs4CsptOvlwUkzQMbETYkfpb7luUiENMYqy3ZOt/Q4zfoI/I3V0lXgfD8UAJw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638316254; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EwOWlsIusx4etzZaOGZOFK+M0qQkT0v0ODvigVguw3AUXy+FGuF/tEYGlkp26tKYzLoXj8 V8bTA93Bspnuq5zI6u6RvkKLg6Bc4XehBvk57Bf6Diah9P1KWAA44bqmOHPfBo+NWoq/dR tkv06RKFAAnMYqA7zLduzQT3RV0BjwhmRrSnlbBdCvqC/Nq3W70e8vbRYPSSsnbue7pQB/ AjE98fR/d3Lgit9E1BwBRiRkFxUAlNLt9XxVfp0DkdfEUTXgJ6ihNw6S3avYcf1oY1O8OU y019gCkQ86jgAycGzlixYo5ps+pUx3ciwQvjMKnOErzpXdNh0um2jYHASZSPaw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Eu2AnP45; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Eu2AnP45; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A93C42F246 X-Spam-Score: -4.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: hVwn/4mlaRG4 if you will forgive one more bikeshed answer, what about this? - reduced org - reduced org, version 1 and maybe - .rorg extension [if and only if needed to guarantee reduction] as for why you got bikeshed answers, maybe the subject header of this thread might have been part of it? idk. =3D=3D=3D as for [other thread], i don't think you are doing this because reduced org is an interesting idea but: > "Does "assuming too much on other people's world because on my own small = world" have a scientific name?" "epistemic tresspassing" has been used for something a bit similar. also i would use the term "drive-by paper" for e.g. making claims about a disease that the authors do not understand at all but think they do, wanting to try their ideology, measurement tool, or intuition regardless so they can get a paper out of it, but that does not apply here. more generally are things like fiefdom/chauvanism, ideological bias, and professional bias, which are different. maybe there should be a "small world bias" or an "if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail bias"? and a "common belief bias" and "cultural belief bias"? and a "my favorite language bias"? you might also consider the availability heuristic, saliency bias, epistemic injustice, and omission bias, but those are different too. i think it is a good idea to be interested in the possibility of reduced org as a generic markup language. On 11/28/21, Karl Voit wrote: > Hi Org-mode community, > > At this year's EmascsConf, I had a 12 minute video where I explain why > we do need a different name for the syntax of Org-mode in contrast to > the Elisp implementation of GNU/Emacs Org-mode. > > I would like you to read my rationale and motivate you to use the term > "Orgdown" for the syntax and "Orgdown1" for the first (very basic) > level of Orgdown syntax elements. > > - The EmacsConf21 talk: https://emacsconf.org/2021/talks/org-outside > - Orgdown site: https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown (please contribute!= ) > - My motivation article: https://karl-voit.at/2021/11/27/orgdown/ > - This is the longer version of my 12 minute EmacsConf21 video. > - My personal copy of the video: > https://tube.graz.social/w/bgJVfjPLQAoJwLJQZoo3Hu > > > Just as a sneak preview (not as a replacement for my motivation article): > > Orgdown is and will be defined in a set of levels, starting with very > basic Orgdown1 (or OD1 or O=E2=86=931 or =E2=A7=AC1 - depending on your c= oolness > factor of choice :-) ) > > - OD1 =E2=86=92 > https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Orgdown-Levels.or= g > - OD2 =E2=86=92 will be defined in future > - OD3 =E2=86=92 will be defined in future > - ... > - OD=E2=88=9E =3D Org-mode (by definition) > > Any OD-level needs to be compatible with Org-mode as implemented in > Elisp for GNU/Emacs Org-mode according to https://orgmode.org. Any ODx > is a sub-set of the syntax elements of ODy (with y>x). > > With introducing a new term specific for the syntax, we do get the > benefit of getting a better way to handle Org-mode support in > 3rd-party tools such as listed on > https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Tool-Support.org > (please extend!). > > Having a well-defined sub-set of Org-mode, I also do think that formal > definitions of the Org-mode syntax will be easier to develop, starting > with the very simple OD1 level. > > It would be awesome if we start referring to syntax support in > 3rd-party tools with the corresponding OD levels. > > I want to emphasize that the goal of Orgdown is NOT and will never be > something that is an alternative to our golden standard Org-mode. We > will try hard not to get into the Markdown situation where you need to > know the exact flavor of the markup in order to produce text. > > So far, the response was great at the conference and I do hope that > this idea will get a life of its own, developing the standard further, > bringing this magnificent lightweight markup to the digital world. > This also eases some pain for users of GNU/Emacs when it comes to > exchanging text-based data. > > Thanks for your support here! > > > -- > Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/ > Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/ > > > --=20 The Kafka Pandemic Please learn what misopathy is. https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged= .html