From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id kA7zDtfKaGCdxQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 22:06:47 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 8LrOCNfKaGB9awAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 509B327A86 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 22:06:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34584 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSmXc-0005U2-It for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:06:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSmXF-0005Tq-Fh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:06:21 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::129]:38814) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSmXC-0003WD-DJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:06:21 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id v15so11999162lfq.5 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 13:06:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+stt28Vej1wFQgmT3VLhte00xDwfFMLbd6wEFdPjmC4=; b=Wjvpjkgyw0mHvnXCs2o0QgdyV8MwxxXS68dYrsZwL6/uuZ8uDWbwTp7kIA3zHmFFCf y17vDGr+xBUMmPI9621KVHYkP5ghFwOpKUivW6s6ac9nNgmA56jkK/Onrth0iSOa/MK6 1B2zPMDUPB0dn9+xRYy0f/e1HzEKXLBkQbb/GwfP6vQ+ISOD7K0LvAG2UxAg+jJFnNaY X3ZkpO/ik87kI7O7cSonSqEx3x8+6SugtFQ4EsWPMPDEEhgIJomvIq9QJ7iEtmsaooxs ql/rwv29ppoBxBmFY07dSis756swPYkNIkrlkSP8uHfTjQmvTtCcpSSKyzFBJBnIhWVt mhYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+stt28Vej1wFQgmT3VLhte00xDwfFMLbd6wEFdPjmC4=; b=GC12GMWD7KOwNcZSHM0kn6DdXsTvQ5n+epJghlNC09lo/NBPzPvECuD5A5f6fkggHx xgenPOa9ODFrGYYI7Ld5dZMAm+INufWAgWHvj/AyXXtFvbIQSq+sfTV5Lk/nziGkPgYC gAjPWwAl8tuV8Bn/NqZpz2/6EFm1vEZqAiTQXIwkiZDv7YJh1gtPaARJaUyp/XNjcwgG /WzfXC5BYaJ+XcWEbo4ZiqKocUPzMp1sivru3a0jju/ysN4KKW7Ya1sA8dafs1TymLDD S7TCxzVKWsfr2BUTxhFHXRtbvWHAPNerMZRnPaitHspEn0m/nsN4/nKVVD0hH3hmxkuw foZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531u5Sbc0x1TD6aAFpxdBBySshkTmq7+EhXqGQJFg6gFq+EAoELF Eybexua++RIZP0qxfxmaiHJPc/hHobldhqAtf3U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwwaTXQ10tx40B9CW7FMXQTH2xz4pgAMkYyFIMTzttYJDArFdH4ht4sOP9veXKWzA77rUd6KT39QkoLG+v33tc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3991:: with SMTP id j17mr12079305lfu.315.1617480376654; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:7842:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <701561.1617475882@apollo2.minshall.org> References: <20210403150042.GK27597@maokai> <701561.1617475882@apollo2.minshall.org> From: Samuel Wales Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 13:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Idea for handling timezones To: Greg Minshall Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::129; envelope-from=samologist@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x129.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617480406; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=+stt28Vej1wFQgmT3VLhte00xDwfFMLbd6wEFdPjmC4=; b=dxEYQomB8CFVMcDflNywTyYrr5UeWhtuBJJkXHZdUmwPgB6aJhNKqqVxVpwW9QncN6oFlf 5ZAxV/fgSVYtnALGK5ACDl4kr3jrHIFI0G3aS2RGy32lQdK1P8WBSEmhm1wGKkyDiIhEC9 7y0V7qZpyBbBJv6vqAUJx+jkr/1B4vHsPi5UGuB+jnGKtEJbEXV8B8B9uO3BNt5KUeqT5P PJ/9DdIHbSEykvAY00IrrpFd83nmT0IrD+gMRDq673HnTWdjp74HIaBUi/OCjJDHN01Jb0 +FcdNmQvBYJhCK6F8EHZUSUX5TcQyKSr6PcrtYua+XRcwKbBPVZ8/ejnEpYOHg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617480406; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=usC48hL8QhmFFV0lW4h/VMz+hqA/AFtFFyw/TCoFgp1m/mTgDB6rtvlUIpxrzxtZcTtrfV lR7j8zvVc9H5H5lxEFmoe5YA3C+F+nXifwsCBG8yewgbgKxe2Yg+l5NTIqzo6xiB4Qitpm bDGrj/j7aoQwzM2FRo4sy6u3P2zv5IyO3e6f2mbo2sLWtEKvQ0356klPNv/tRl1NbQ3cay Etig+mgdXlaKMUNxPbthnII6ZVd5Cc1PY0aGHypgN+lr0y5DF222G69YTrqbK9ID8O5l09 iK94bzmWivnLrWJ1+Oeo+ad1/KX7EC/UiZh0fMcKG4yPRRiyHkK1FARrbJjgng== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Wjvpjkgy; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Wjvpjkgy; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 509B327A86 X-Spam-Score: -1.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: n3Mz+v+Q6ZlV the suggestion to change all your tses to utc was not a general suggestion for all org users or a change to org. for op only. but the point about grep and such then breaking is a good one. it is possibly not a useful workaround for the op. On 4/3/21, Greg Minshall wrote: > Russell, > >> I would not suggest using UTC. I believe one of the reasons timestamps >> didn't include TZ information was to keep them short and human >> legible. Solutions with overlays to change a timestamp reduce the >> usefulness of the plain text reading of Org (ie: less, grep, >> etc). Storing timestamps with UTC is really a shortcut for the >> computer, not the user. > > i wonder if this is perhaps another place where "org mode as simple > text" conflicts with "org mode to solve difficult problems". that comes > up from time to time (using dollar signs as delimiters for math is one > recent example, another is "-" being "filled" into column one and taken > as an item in a new list). > > it's a hard line to straddle. > > Greg > > -- The Kafka Pandemic Please learn what misopathy is. https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html