From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Samuel Wales Subject: Re: [Out-of-Thread] Re: [RFC] Org syntax (draft) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:07:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6449B53A-997D-411D-8E13-AAFAE6D81397@gmail.com> <87mwu0n371.fsf@riseup.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44415) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHnq6-0004Rq-UI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 00:07:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHnq5-0004sg-Nr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 00:07:54 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::232]:32812) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UHnq5-0004sW-Gs for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 00:07:53 -0400 Received: by mail-wi0-f178.google.com with SMTP id hq4so27400wib.11 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:07:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87mwu0n371.fsf@riseup.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: "W. Greenhouse" Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On 3/18/13, W. Greenhouse wrote: > Perhaps a compromise could be reached on variables such as > `org-emphasis-alist' and others possibly slated for the defconst > treatment: instead of doing that, let's consider keeping them > customizable but include the default values in the Org format > specification. Org users who are never using Org outside of Emacs will I think this is a good idea. === Here is a brainstorm involving an old idea: If the problem is external parsers vs. flexibility, I wonder if it might be possible to have zeltak's cake and eat it too. This applies to more than just coloring in the buffer transiently. In the case of color, $[face :foreground "red"]we can actually color something in a way that external parsers can understand and export backends can support$[end]. To some degree, at least. We can do so $[face :foreground "yellow" :underline t]using a syntax that will work for other features also and can be upgraded$[end]. Not only for faces. Just change "face" to the name of your feature. Every feature that uses the $[] syntax starts out as experimental or in the user's .emacs. Then after we experiment with a feature and decide it's worth being a default, we add it to the RFC and no longer call it Emacs-only. One big win is that Emacs and external parsers need only understand the $[] notation, and do not need to come up with new parsing techniques for syntax, because it is a Lisp lambda list. Even the user can do this. All sorts of things then come for free. For example, quoting, escaping, nesting, pretty-printing, exporting, hiding, making the $[] parts look human-friendly by making them invisible or collapsing them, and so on. They are all available for new features that need syntax, including user-defined ones. A possibility for what it's worth. Samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. ANYBODY can get it. There is NO hope without action. This means YOU.