From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id oJI4NezC71+pEwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 02 Jan 2021 00:48:44 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id IJMHMezC71/GKwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 02 Jan 2021 00:48:44 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 579359402D4 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:48:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60800 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvV62-0007d0-LV for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 19:48:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55720) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvV5h-0007cr-Cz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 19:48:21 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]:35807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvV5f-00013O-R5 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 19:48:21 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id h22so51293166lfu.2 for ; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:48:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Mqa0rQ+z40n2WHAGeZFre2m2HsVjl2bAPqloZK9G9pE=; b=apQaNi5rfs269K5DVknMQ20bKPNIbZRZFRXdtTBpfKaDfsCTKOeWN7T+XUAHeXh9SL GTJHcNFe66Yhg4/jnolBfPc0McxokM6WemAoK+8VSXUnU5osR8YjtToUlY4UBMn4pccT Dc3ugnoiasnG9GS1X6kWrTag9ZFueuNZMiHIaVoc+u55sFBUMHpA5BLFQvKL8vsLZ7PA tjIsEi3ivDLAEsIXr3oA+xQ7bQTEFU55P+WHM0756V1i7C+xiBnx50B+cqQJCEjd99Tx EsD2zJLheqmRy/8j7AqAEKtsZzdgTtJpWiBB+SFXLgVrdbW7JYOzweaT1wSSMr72xrA2 ynmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Mqa0rQ+z40n2WHAGeZFre2m2HsVjl2bAPqloZK9G9pE=; b=tVbVVxHEtx8Ay8bkAu0IX+AM2h/bJSK8+kDjU8l532xUvwDpzRBczcXqsVkv4sn9cF XHXWIiy+rKXMjVAxkaBPQYrALGP1BLUAI0a+KVnkmqYCsJjhLTITYDNANnXwWWf0JPne DvY5mvZ/+w0sDHhYynuvGSnNOEXEin76/iYY2rvlSuWkwEaPM0boPnpVQhLXa1aCVNy0 D6FQp2/MtOt08f4Y3d5MxN994EigrKCnv+wJsKMILi6+G3IDK5//6p8O8f82wb/babct D6CwV2+skiiclSvshbR1v3QRW9Y1WFKSvooyD5yGRo7zuz9rFm4tV8XgAqRvfCdOwFuu BefA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5334K/XK3w1fUzHZaOwZEfpM9OTdUCEMIlbkvQN5eNxMW7Yt9QDW /L2MGzIVBa49Yx+73r0twhdIoa4x2ze97vocWLEt2UEomvPEKQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyFE7cRu5vxfqqi8emwnOV78JBxQMCflQc8MHKgq5iQsimA8pltsEL9UkM8UIINHGH8JHDIOjc5LCLYbKox2iw= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:518d:: with SMTP id u13mr28614881lfi.169.1609548496857; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:48:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:4a02:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jan 2021 16:48:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <69f2606a-105d-75e8-61aa-e4df82c9f445@grinta.net> From: Samuel Wales Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2021 17:48:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Microsoft Excel spreadsheet editing directly from within emacs. To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=samologist@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.03 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=apQaNi5r; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 579359402D4 X-Spam-Score: -3.03 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: m64kGiD4cS3f angels fear to tread but imo the degree to which one can say /a priori/ that a personal ui preference is "WRONG" can have limits? org spreadsheets can have strengths and weaknesses. whether they matter depends on the user. example: for me, they are: - i use them infrequently and have to learn their syntax and commands anew every time. that is /just me/. [dunno if this could be improved such as with ergonomics/accessibility improvements and more standard and less horizontal using interfaces.] - for some reason, ses and excel are intuitive /for me/. i can't give a song and dance about why, but i can say that it is not because i have huge experience with those. i do not. they just are quicker to pick up again after years of non-use. /for me/. - i like elisp [this is /just me/] and unfortuately do not know r, so elisp is great - calc is awe inspiring even though i almost never use it. it would be great if it, or org, or both, had even better and intuitive/convenient /for me/ chart producing ability. - plain text is great [few on the org list will disagree] - [perhaps a compromise would include a new feature in which gui spreadsheet data or ses gets saved entirely in org blocks? dunno.] - i suppose i vary between needing only a little data and data size that org is unlikely to deal with in an org table [as opposed perhaps to an enormous block or something] but that is merely my experience. reference to authorities or argumentation is unlikely to change that much. what might help imo is figuring out if org can accommodate different use cases, including basic gui/ses-mode type spreadsheet learning curve.