From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sGE9BkKBxmAVGQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:05:54 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id MJebAUKBxmAkOwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 22:05:54 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60A9C1BEFC for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:05:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42932 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYEp-0000yz-By for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:05:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38892) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYDr-0000yr-Ae for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:04:51 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::329]:37843) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYDp-0007bZ-FI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:04:50 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id f16-20020a05600c1550b02901b00c1be4abso11711907wmg.2 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TRPoImIFF4RA6quu8yvzFN7mJBaEt/VDbvCtspkk3bo=; b=oZxyHTzilWHfpJlmyNord/avOUNliMsyGw6GNoT2zzYXTL97E45C21IpnIG6Gf5Oft MSYpOYjf1diSbqTn+MCPv8qm/M2oyAXCHhqWAsRei9dzY6kjc5A1GvhJ14q9MB6Mo7Dj MsPwnytGCXrQI4oF2j9fntvIRD18c/gi6zoA/1448Mgt4RpZee6NddGWUXIfrZMBsD+v 1F6+YasKMhysI9C5UxycZxSJr/nFqlRP7L6Nje+Xsne5RXy7II8+70QjQAYjXAuAytLv StYGs4LBxt0aRDLKsweMzDohrQDxMGtMu1KhUijr6kokSZ0B0bup5PvBOHCLmpVkkGnd 1gNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TRPoImIFF4RA6quu8yvzFN7mJBaEt/VDbvCtspkk3bo=; b=AiAwQgMX5UfxUmVwCSnKLQLZs5xg+jDtZXRw7P2JAfK3+DuKqwLCwF8w3/LNnIMBU7 wQsv9OF2sa0nPXfB5KyZfB6/rwAa8MvGvXMdqm4Do6OPYyNqSdvOT/H1VWJIKhKc+0b7 bIl4CQFIz1zdvMfGpaiAK5WBX8R74g2cTlzjpc0xn+fcnaRkveZmikzWjb3allEn+7Xu LIQDVCtx277GZJrVAXhyjzlnEnIXTqcZt9k/v6E5hP1BhHRpOAD43aV3gzyOZPTgkvAc DUGLEfEoue6KxWG6qv5fb9IlIEgQ5oueMpf/AXzMOeJfmZ+ewBnG7v3UGwq/KYWxKg1D dq3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531fxtQzNLQ1S+UGRuNX85Ib0VeiEuqJGQH8JClU2K0L+kB9ovEM iItKK5x02UPIboedTnXhRvQXJ2GvcQVBIWLo3Xo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJynxXQ3Mo6NhxF+pfzCdu3exMj8gwS9c/vmi2YObFhwDmDjZwzAYSHmZXctrPszQyEDJmfT58/79A9FLtWv6Zs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3650:: with SMTP id y16mr13234715wmq.92.1623621886958; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <81051f87-a90e-56ed-7867-d6179ec1e9ad@mailbox.org> <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> <87h7icatav.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <952cbae3-496c-acea-4ff1-beb9c3306979@mailbox.org> <87zgvvtoay.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <535c4059-e019-0970-afea-efed82b003ac@mailbox.org> In-Reply-To: <535c4059-e019-0970-afea-efed82b003ac@mailbox.org> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations To: Denis Maier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d25f0d05c4aced06" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::329; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x329.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List , Nicolas Goaziou Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623621953; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TRPoImIFF4RA6quu8yvzFN7mJBaEt/VDbvCtspkk3bo=; b=Vqhd4kcihNMH9SxvkYrNcVIpyEI/hJtox1qnUQg3KTnmx3jX3GQdGQDprc3eVlvfoyX8yc 3H0UY588tJAniSc0tmlvlcc04FvgbQtJN8ky5jgRhLHck5grMvlfka8NYd4BPbgWm958SN AMSamnRDztYOcV1sTNEv6AyvVOK8OBGdXzSOWSVPKa0uEIl4T/Gr5MAxXHHAYqJN19XNOA HGd5SguaaiwJfeQOrfguow5tyM6G2L91JGCuc0qTR3n9S9jdMoaSOyZum6G+1hr2DtoUfP llaBfg0bj7WWS+nbl9MCGWp4y3tzjkQ89VEGjv/DtwKoPFrlb9t44JAK5EqmgQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623621953; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MKS4/DigiZ/NpX0EwJtk7qgrEw4U4u//I9NTVslLbY4a1VmqTdmKDN4Fqwv5h7VKixoVic q7Ft9pZW4jo0JhNxnpMI8fVieLPPCuD5R1GfkSjVymuVYQJEj/4aIldoQYtpTa+n9Aqb+6 gjqzVWHjg5OYxtV4LFBkWGzgqCQG9ph1VMAW34sgneNZuVbwtwQJ6BfQN7hJYVAgkPXT0n sratNgL7jVDquXsBjnLVKIw76ezVQMGCy02bftbcuIpCqv9TQ2KULS3t8NhncsVTn2fzk6 /4/5hhoOAq68eyJNyE7a5Qved0tY0EfnWkgPhHPqdhnvZy9DVcLl0+DY5Mik/w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=oZxyHTzi; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=oZxyHTzi; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 60A9C1BEFC X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ddla45IFvzqo --000000000000d25f0d05c4aced06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, and gave a reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstruct missing information IIRC). On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:54 PM Denis Maier wrote: > Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: > > Hello, > > > > Denis Maier writes: > > > >> Yes, good this is coming. > > > > As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for > > note numbers handling. > > > > I added three customizable variables: > > > > - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the user to toggle > > punctuation and note number moving (on by default). > > > > - org-cite-note-rules, which defines what rules to apply according to > > locale, expressed as a language tag, as in RFC 4646. > > > > - org-cite-punctuation-marks, which lists strings recognized as > > punctuation in the process. > > > > `csl' and `basic' processors now both make use of this. > > > > I'd appreciate some feedback, in particular about the docstrings of the > > variables above. I focused on the "note numbers" topic instead of > > "punctuation" since I found the latter too generic. > > > > Also, there are some points that may need to be discussed: > > > > - I'm not sure about the `org-cite-punctuation-marks' variable being > > global, i.e., not locale-specific. > > > > - There is no support for this in LaTeX-derived back-ends, because > > I don't know when a citation is going to become a footnote. As > > a reminder, there is no "\footcite" command in `biblatex' processor. > > OTOH, users might prefer using a more advanced mechanism, e.g., > > csquotes. > > > > - It doesn't do anything special in quote blocks, because I'm still not > > sure there is something to do. AFAIU, special casing there only > > applies to author-date location, which out of the scope of this code. > > > > WDYT? > > Ok, I've managed to test this a bit, and I think this looks pretty good > so far. > > The only question I'd still have is if this could somehow also cover the > reverse situation (going from a note style to author-date). I've noticed > that simply adding a new language rule doesn't work anymore---as opposed > to my initial tests with earlier iterations of that mechanism. Seems > like this mechanism is now only triggered when using a note based style. > > Best, > Denis > > > > > Regards, > > > > --000000000000d25f0d05c4aced06 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, and gave a= reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstruct missing inf= ormation IIRC).

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:54 PM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> wrote:
Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaz= iou:
> Hello,
>
> Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> writes:
>
>> Yes, good this is coming.
>
> As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for=
> note numbers handling.
>
> I added three customizable variables:
>
> - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the user to toggle=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 punctuation and note number moving (on by default).
>
> - org-cite-note-rules, which defines what rules to apply according to<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 locale, expressed as a language tag, as in RFC 4646.
>
> - org-cite-punctuation-marks, which lists strings recognized as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 punctuation in the process.
>
> `csl' and `basic' processors now both make use of this.
>
> I'd appreciate some feedback, in particular about the docstrings o= f the
> variables above. I focused on the "note numbers" topic inste= ad of
> "punctuation" since I found the latter too generic.
>
> Also, there are some points that may need to be discussed:
>
> - I'm not sure about the `org-cite-punctuation-marks' variable= being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 global, i.e., not locale-specific.
>
> - There is no support for this in LaTeX-derived back-ends, because
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I don't know when a citation is going to become a foo= tnote. As
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a reminder, there is no "\footcite" command in = `biblatex' processor.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 OTOH, users might prefer using a more advanced mechanism,= e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 csquotes.
>
> - It doesn't do anything special in quote blocks, because I'm = still not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure there is something to do. AFAIU, special casing ther= e only
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 applies to author-date location, which out of the scope o= f this code.
>
> WDYT?

Ok, I've managed to test this a bit, and I think this looks pretty good=
so far.

The only question I'd still have is if this could somehow also cover th= e
reverse situation (going from a note style to author-date). I've notice= d
that simply adding a new language rule doesn't work anymore---as oppose= d
to my initial tests with earlier iterations of that mechanism. Seems
like this mechanism is now only triggered when using a note based style.
Best,
Denis

>
> Regards,
>

--000000000000d25f0d05c4aced06--