From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id UPF1B4j4kl5icwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:16:24 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id QDkqG4r4kl6NWgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:16:26 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 790CA682D68 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:16:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60746 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNab6-0004U9-Q0 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:16:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNaaS-0004TZ-Lj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:15:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNaaR-0002ra-Gv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:15:40 -0400 Received: from mail-vk1-xa44.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a44]:46823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNaaR-0002rP-BJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:15:39 -0400 Received: by mail-vk1-xa44.google.com with SMTP id l69so1597841vki.13 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:15:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PywIFasP3lRLgC87vnb6kBU+MeDArGOUEZo7ng1Y3Ac=; b=NHd68oXak2sNz+lV/2DjXqTVBgghrZhMaunFl3R4kW+lWFfpQ7FEtmHxQepEqY44KD L5KXM3FxqQzvY0FkR+X0hAr60Cd5h9m0mayOlDNgG5rQLWbgzme+NJcpQu+75aV2llJM zsG4KG70mu5ExSrpvsKMOGL2NwPHr2GPp4K43tVrcmyCIkHq8KNh+YK5rt09GXxb5sMs vZZqx4Zc38UHLbR7rDxKTjMHX9T7BU8Oc4Xr1g0/ylHvnmJwLDZajaoHeWMtKX9Q84IZ RdzzM838gV87nDd+7NRMotZKAcpBdWaAsE2+T6E8QJpi0AD58C1zUTdyV3u3Gjl5xpV2 icRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PywIFasP3lRLgC87vnb6kBU+MeDArGOUEZo7ng1Y3Ac=; b=JvAb9PEpaYJSnUJRZ5vKVgb1gpWCQFxjMbNKnBnoihhqawO7c1uML6evQhVeUqi6y6 Ruy8jMzmA1FUhdJOQPnrDsx7dl9AXahk9VljR+hnWGwlIFKi3m/TtY6R1hMpaWg1sWND ingwZM//LYpVRo95AjycxZmNl0Juf1h/iT6U1ANbhPEc5WEHNJ3I5PtCJnPta32nqG/F VEprtmw92/KdZ4uvQ8XSBjxiwbZaTDjoTRDC4T8WMwaih1mb4Sa/HrVh8AZ18+Idh6gw PznLOZpNMssyjjAI381HQfT922AU/ySC/7lEGx403e7nTAF/KBKK4yknDEWBRrbLrkN2 mDug== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubW+UnvIQxeS2CpdnfyrOJMFcGY2uYSDryBvHz2hFuSEIohX96v MNrcny+d0yU2XpndpappZ0MHgqJje/+hoiwTTl8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJpbz0GTZ7tSVBsdv7vaTVUj6J4BZAjhtoumoWM5f8wnZiAziDaHUUl43ubZp/HWTYS/iOtKjD/LXg/iHygFkY= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:3649:: with SMTP id d70mr7867681vka.12.1586690138359; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:15:27 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::a44 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=NHd68oXa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.5793700188908]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.29), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,gnu.org,mailbox.org]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bdarcus@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: jSM2uUOIGrtE Hi, On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 6:38 AM Nicolas Goaziou wr= ote: > Anyway, Org cite syntax should: > - fully support CSL, > - allow changing globally style of cites, > - be extensible enough to support =C2=AB advanced =C2=BB citation markup = (NatBib, > Biblatex=E2=80=A6), > - degrade gracefully when using less advanced markup, > - be short enough Perfect. > Here's a proposal for a definitive citation syntax. > > This syntax implements one default cite command, and specialized (or > typed) ones. > > The default citation command is, as usual: > > [cite: ... @key1...] > > with allowed global pre/post strings, and a minus marker to specify > SuppressAuthor per cite. > > I assume that [cite:@key] is common enough, so bare @key is a shorthand > for it. Likewise, -@key is a shorthand for [cite:-@key]. All good. > Default citations uses the default citation style, which could be > defined globally (by a defcustom), locally (keyword, or property), or > per ".bib" file. I'm just a little confused here, particularly on the last item. Why would one set a style per bib file? > The syntax also provides typed citations: > > [citeX: ... @key1...] > > where X stands for any alphanumeric character. > > A typed citation is meant to locally override default style. Each > citation back-ends may interpret "X" type, but if they don't, "citeX" > should be treated as "cite". > > For example, assuming Citeproc treats > > [cite:@doe] > > as (Doe, 2020), then > > [citet:@doe] > > could be interpreted as AuthorInText by Citeproc, i.e., > > Doe (2020) > > but > > [citep:@doe] > > could be ignored, and therefore become > > (Doe, 2020) > > Of course Biblatex may interpret it differently. This looks to be an elegant solution to the goals you articulated at the to= p. On the "could be ignored" part, you are referring to the optional type character, so that citey: becomes cite:; correct? Finally, what does the above example look like when, say, there are two cites (say @doe2020 and @doe2019), and a global prefix? Is it this? [cite:see ;@doe2020;@doe2019] And a SuppressAuthor variant would be this? [cite:see ;-@doe2020;-@doe2019] Bruce