From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id gH00ACyikmBIdwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 15:48:28 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id UMZrNyuikmAybgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 13:48:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17F6C2CD02 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 15:48:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leHt3-0003Pn-5M for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 09:48:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33070) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leHrE-0002i6-6Q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 09:46:32 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::435]:42860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leHrC-0006kS-2X for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 09:46:31 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id l2so1902744wrm.9 for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 06:46:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dn+s6YFQ58q85CYPp/R6ccPnN3arxS2SGBzF6UaVKBY=; b=gSmw/dKxocM+ThpPcL1UXdi9RhH9qPt6Oq/hXW2r6mREoCH66VekpOcJ/MgyHPQHgR n0DOk4aQzl3qIuPBvvACvDy8CcGAXjs+0yo7lXkqogsQ5ps20VzLtRMvEswTt4MRVnx1 BqLJ3Aq4ejgWsrkEuo8mith9rFbcb9mO1kokkyEa5O7G5Ut0U/6/lg8Gm5DzJBo9bsoV WL7K2eAWA/UCzTylAcup38FGh/++X1LUEWdJ+1diAoIWXkyS9t52AERVmjwkGsKRdam9 FqhJ5fqOV3hUVNIfv50JLaQQdKmoDgJ01VijYj8kv6zy+7pJebbx9fEOObeVayagluGc I9gg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dn+s6YFQ58q85CYPp/R6ccPnN3arxS2SGBzF6UaVKBY=; b=OLkwR7PDyOeKu8lMwxTm0TVicemzJnfGllLB1KbBpGhlgZPOfDaclUEkijxUW/LESk 5Np5BzzGxH8AHmDEm2l8n4K1/zO8E7ijPfeEkldOXcMChLW+0O7Ut51kEX7Fb629Cqgw fjT2Mdhnf8N7ODSnqD4niCPbsP+QdlPExL6Lf0ZM6Mc+vUhktOfU2sM0O7OcnjM2XnmA JH/ITjESAcu1/EEd7RRQshOXQgzlJ8Ecme7ZylOKSwX9DOKFDnZHP4N1JgscIe3VvHuH ggPtw6os4BQTCvZuCPmGBzBf9v7CXp9CsvtmM40ZwIby209iVFTno869nv4IGrSxGl7z lRgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FQclHfPGVk3Elb649nX840h0cYDGE7eDpW/Of1MGxM/x3aovS zZ/hmepNexlxOKG1e8VJYmZetRiHl3eIJGtxnMJUL8zY3A6DZw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwV+5XYE1cJXxU5ahAsc7ZkRGsNrBew43cqikNUvDKa6MT3MI75V40ccvhr41RmO4gZi/miRdrohziSOVqBcsA= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e84a:: with SMTP id d10mr26937707wrn.132.1620222387856; Wed, 05 May 2021 06:46:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <20210324182751.GA8721@atlantis> <87czuzprmh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sg3neo0k.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87eef35h7n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87a6pr5g4m.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877dkt2pce.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <878s57fubm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87mttfuck9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <897892c5-db81-af4e-f265-c89f9d4974b1@mailbox.org> In-Reply-To: From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 09:46:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: org-mode-email Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::435; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x435.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620222506; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=dn+s6YFQ58q85CYPp/R6ccPnN3arxS2SGBzF6UaVKBY=; b=Jxsqo651lxK7WMb0ss8cs965PZ3KR9FOmwM1iuZepqbRJ0YovWr9sy0z4iyEAzLDN0npkI 5ILEAr8UMiKv3jViAFD7TUTokN6xOrnp4Dbr1VCf4rL5q3ZfIsby5wkLQDK8kR2gbsYAeM o1Evdo2+t14JvfnoUkqhvd+Dpxm6IAar3WoNVucXD100G2gdq6Fmd4tKPVahtuFGBCoxrQ U32q8P0Fz7jwGkCNIIZDessYxfLQ3MXC/uIzQyOW7nWjnNRIpw4gVMl+SDsm9kQuOddY6/ NRi+64GxFtjoO0aLb9HrSSqCYBJRsZggJU6kbc5K9rn10xymAs2fit76c6Vmlw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620222506; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JYZtZyAn3alFshoAqhYSmUuSAF7UkHuZjq0bRCfgEvdcF/Bps95ZkFdUGEfRNcCtCvYLpe 9vcWU+LZd80LtZ9xp4P9VhhxGzwmfw8svA1zInhPUmejsWpdCvugcMJTzUFmemys3FYvOF 6HnaJN6yvspdlwuE0kUnncbvrdw3UKsAsySqFhen9ZRYE2+ytXdFAtNCK95EEqfJDKnYhw prsjTqMOnybZuyQ3gWxY3/bM39zxRnIJ8AvK1UKDUz1SKsFYCd3UsFJ1wuCjBrOK++1Xi7 aaWadjR9PtE+g+jRKb9GSeBd2uhqEZKkb5nD8kLMHsmXXKzibzTXdydnx4Hs4w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="gSmw/dKx"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="gSmw/dKx"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 17F6C2CD02 X-Spam-Score: -3.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: IeUNl3vciQ8d On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 6:18 PM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 5:59 PM Denis Maier wrote: > > > I'm thinking whether this could make the system more flexible and > > adaptable. > > We'd still need to discuss details of course (like including sensible > defaults, etc.) if this were possible, but Denis and I agree that > having a second optional parameter as a function would be ideal. If this is NOT practical, just to summarize what we've learned/concluded: Assuming this basic example: A sentence ending in a "cited quote" [cite:doe]. We found three rules: 1. what Chicago calls "American" 2. what it calls "British" 3. French (though Denis is still confirming how these work in actual books) The output in each, when formatting as a note: 1. A sentence ending in a "cited quote."[1] 2. A sentence ending in a "cited quote".[1] 3. A sentence ending in a "cited quote[1]." Note: Nicolas' POC correctly handles case 1. Can be hard to see the nuances, but note that all three move the punctuation, and remove the space between quote and note mark. The difference is how they reassemble these components; in particular where they put that trailing punctuation (period, etc.), and where they put the note mark. 1. move punctuation inside quote 2. move punctuation outside quote 3. move note mark AND then punctuation inside quote It could be they each need a boolean parameter, similar to what I suggested earlier. Then "American" (current) could be: - punctuation-inside-quote t - mark-inside-quote nil "British" could be: - punctuation-inside-quote nil - mark-inside-quote nil And "french": - punctuation-inside-quote t - mark-inside-quote t But a potential (?) problem with this is one couldn't specify the relative order of punctuation and note mark. So Denis had an idea to simply allow the order of those components to be configured, something like this (the lisp is probably wrong, but it demonstrates the idea): `(final-punct trailing-punct closing-quotation citation) I think that covers current status. So what to do? Bruce PS - we know, this seems a lot of effort for what seems a corner case. But there will be some users for which this matters a lot.