From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id wCKUJHPErGFkagAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 14:53:55 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id OAdaIHPErGGdGQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 13:53:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AE1728965 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2021 14:53:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41766 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtrxh-0002Jy-Ii for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53878) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtrwu-0002Ji-EB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 08:53:04 -0500 Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::334] (port=40684 helo=mail-wm1-x334.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtrws-0002Lz-2K for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 08:53:04 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id j140-20020a1c2392000000b003399ae48f58so8471061wmj.5 for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 05:53:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AIp6fT/CgO9UQ8XO6JwkELkNuUuImR+FeZ5mELp+6Ug=; b=Pnu1wk62YjsXaWJBm7Vfy/PVZXGik4IhsSQ9uksmlq+Ik9bYmuU0oKYkEgoiNsEbG3 GykAV26jx4HAHpsV+hK0xki6KetXZZTKhmRJpbYKLlFjK/vIPG5b+O6eAAxdi60nX4na eTIat/yPVTwKlOeWRz8LxJ1DzThhcYeRQrPAqAiuPgg3C3wI+VMe/gz2Q6NVn85Din9F Qex2C+b5I1LtTDg6QNkyQ1NrzZn8Ooz89+4MEv1Y0aMgcNioatxKllYSRNkTbM5ecBvw 7qroxKQ5kkRS/uplURbk7Gdaw2Q9ayF+WDEG2MV/gLaz4exbfohuK7gyT+rfiQtzK54R wN2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AIp6fT/CgO9UQ8XO6JwkELkNuUuImR+FeZ5mELp+6Ug=; b=C8Edf7Ce5rNSkQSxskpsRKtLgGe2vC5lkIH+cddDWKX7u2IVydoR6oph50df1F8IVa Q8cHno6uLcOpxDsIHYaRn/BeiosRg9QenjnHa3lPeqSI+QXv1uyA7SFLNMiiChIPMRUZ fNG8Yx633Hdlx1CQ+i7lwZubVNGsooi5c0/4U0/21RHvEetMuBqCHGRiC7KQr2EOIoQF /0Nk1XXA2VilGapN9/tJ6apodK2SSPqTUWa3oQk5Hu/qkrcnA9wlDrNjSIQMdZvoFx69 zIbzTraJxeiShfNtH9iFPuYuFY65Z2bjmMOckMWayU+0cJ1Aar7oOGJRvcKY9KTk9URW /92w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533OeFVtmmM82eRKHPlWf6EeqjyDYc9Apg+DP4nhY1PMDkK40xMh hV/m4GoUns2WhHPwH3hbCoxv43BYtotK4bKsvy8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyxgfwLQ9Z+96NMnbDbLarwznN1MHY8mE8g+lVs/BuNTTI0tDlnb0UITHBgn+NGngNFaiyhMfMyrFGcrRICG1Y= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cf02:: with SMTP id l2mr31507851wmg.78.1638712380116; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 05:53:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:52:49 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal To: Tim Cross Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::334 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::334; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x334.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638712435; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=AIp6fT/CgO9UQ8XO6JwkELkNuUuImR+FeZ5mELp+6Ug=; b=lOK1rY9srBAWWoAMCgbmcLWof4jZVV2wwFiRjUakwjrQQRM2d4QuxffNFqcb29tUNVE9ML WmSagjGo/zlU8BCWkws6DLFbX9OW15XDcEUUVbwbaLyoi1q4Ot6z7yAUw0TYT0FmDwx6ng R1EmpMUtWcagwvg17v0wmwN7Hf8/V3HBwLgNP5J8f3vDkMgPkHXSDKzYUaHWUBLOkZSw5X g+iM1GNzfefqz9U7I9lwi/9tuLkDzFiJPpsQkmBLayQEB+FARXBVqTjr6qnjVl23wKRkfa P7QgsbUDibJULF3VvBdomY1G1Y/waoD8ZygZIdmcUqBrWF50gqBL+EEkWi6cOQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638712435; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=eUFFHPf3yL5PszLcP/qOi/IyR90o72j/RZ6FaEI0Ha5gvIOQHh83POp0lUBqFhWWthONOu 1c74KKtkTXQrSQCoruw7qyR2jedDGhFI6/19g6OqjjbtvgZtGQGQFHaeoRAtEYgA3itc7w VnEIGkhWDpSkqlcRRj4HNDrfPzJZxyb3QZzWxfkglJViVOudhMeIpV7POfRGCT1XT1Ibj5 /Fn4+171M/X/jr2buvciJ+nIEbC8XunY8WqXxVTkm/RR9ZuOGQUGz5pM+m2IPQUfCrU4Nj 5tYG+EkjTeGpc0T57B8vQFaJSR+7pOCphS/g8UFfyKLFqFZg9hSjZGDJbB1DrQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Pnu1wk62; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Pnu1wk62; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5AE1728965 X-Spam-Score: -4.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: VmqVgqUUyJFG On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:42 AM Tim Cross wrote: > I think your working off a false premise. Your view is that org mode > should be available in other editors/software so that others can realise > the power and benefits it provides. I can understand that position. > > However, the FSF position would be exactly the opposite. They would > argue that orgmode is a powerful and flexible tool that is part of Emacs > and if you want that power and flexibility, you need to use Emacs. Perhaps, but Emacs org users benefit from better support for org documents outside of Emacs. Bruce