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X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." 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But that stalled somewhere, and we still have diverse tools, using diverse and incompatible methods to define citation links. I see from the archive there was an encouraging thread from April of 2018 (so, two years ago) that seemed to suggest merging to master was close, with perhaps some uncertainty around syntax being the primary hold up? My main question: how do we get this done? I'm happy to help resolve any syntax questions, if that's the primary hold up, though my coding skills in general are minimal. While I=E2=80=99m here, some feedback and thoughts below. I think the propo= sed syntax is basically sound, but maybe could be simplified. For background, I created the Citation Style Language (CSL), and the initial XSLT-based proof-of-concept formatter, which I used to format the citations and bibliography in my first book. I work in a field that has pretty diverse citation practices, and myself work at the borders of the social sciences and humanities, which influences my thinking on design priorities around citation technology. I also had a hand in the pandoc citation syntax, which is consistent with the basic design goals I had, including: 1. simple as possible plain-text format, consistent with markdown 2. prefix and suffix free text, page number locators, etc. 3. ability to radically change output style (for example, from author-date to footnote-based), without changing source. I believe the pandoc syntax achieves all of these goals. Which brings me to the org proposal. The only documentation I can find on the proposal is at the citeproc org project. https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-org#citations If the above is correct, then: 1. There are two forms of citations: short and long. 2. Short is of this syntax, and can only have a single citekey as content: [@doe2019]. 3. Anything else (multiple citations, locators, prefixes and/or suffixes) requires the long form. 4. In addition, there is a standard long form, and what the doc above calls =E2=80=9Cparenthetical=E2=80=9D form of the long form. So do I have all that right? First question: Why #4 above; a distinction between two different long forms? Moving on, assuming the above is correct, let=E2=80=99s borrow these exampl= es from the pandoc citation syntax for markdown (which it also supports in org): Blah blah [see @doe99, pp. 33-35; also @smith04, chap. 1]. Blah blah [@doe99, pp. 33-35, 38-39 and *passim*]. Blah blah [@smith04; @doe99]. So from a model perspective, a citation in pandoc is a list of one-or-more cites (or whatever we want to call them), each of which has optional: - prefix - Locators (page numbers and such) - suffix I believe this is similar to the proposed org model, with one difference: the org proposal adds prefix and suffix for the list (the citation) as a whole. So the pandoc version is a flat list, and the org version has two levels. Am I still understanding everything correctly? So ... am I correct that in none of these cases can one use the =E2=80=9Csh= ort=E2=80=9D form, and that the above would look like this converted to the proposed org syntax? Blah blah [cite:see @doe99 pp. 33-35; also @smith04 chap. 1]. Blah blah [cite:@doe99 pp. 33-35, 38-39 and *passim*]. Blah blah [cite:@smith04; @doe99]. Or the first one might treat the =E2=80=9Csee=E2=80=9D as a prefix for the = list, though I=E2=80=99m not sure what the practical benefit of that more hierarchical modelling is. While I do wonder if the syntax could be simplified, my main hope is that it actually gets merged to master and deployed, to harmonize the variety of different ways emacs tools (org-ref, ebib, pandoc, etc.) are dealing with citation links in org currently. --00000000000077623e05a2b4da80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone; first post.

From what I can tell, there = was a lot of activity here a few years back to define org citation link sup= port, which was reflected in what seems to be a fairly developed wip-cite b= ranch of the git repo.

But that stalled somewhere, and we still = have diverse tools, using diverse and incompatible methods to define citati= on links.=C2=A0


I see from the archive there was an encouraging thread from April= of 2018 (so, two years ago) that seemed to suggest merging to master= was close, with perhaps some uncertainty around syntax being the primary h= old up?


My main question: how do we get this done?


I'm happy to help resolve any syntax questions, if that's the prim= ary hold up, though my coding skills in general are minimal.


=

= While= I=E2=80=99m here, some feedback and thoughts below. I think the proposed s= yntax is basically sound, but maybe could be simplified.


For backg= round, I created the Citation Style Language (CSL), and the initial XSLT-ba= sed proof-of-concept formatter, which I used to format the citations and bi= bliography in my first book.


I work in a field that has pretty div= erse citation practices, and myself work at the borders of the social scien= ces and humanities, which influences my thinking on design priorities aroun= d citation technology.


I also had a hand in the pandoc citation sy= ntax, which is consistent with the basic design goals I had, including:


  1. simple as possible plain-text format, consistent with = markdown

  2. prefix and su= ffix free text, page number locators, etc.

  3. ability to radically change output style (for example,= from author-date to footnote-based), without changing source.


I believe the pandoc syntax achieves all of these goals.

<= br>

Wh= ich brings me to the org proposal.=C2=A0


The only documentation I = can find on the proposal is at the citeproc org project.


https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citepr= oc-org#citations


If the above is correct, then:


=

  1. There are two forms of citations: short and long.

    2. =

  2. Short is of this syntax, and can only= have a single citekey as content: [@doe2019].

  3. Anything else (multiple citations, locators, prefi= xes and/or suffixes) requires the long form.

  4. In addition, there is a standard long form, and what= the doc above calls =E2=80=9Cparenthetical=E2=80=9D form of the long form.=


So do I have all that right?


First question:= =C2=A0


Why #4 above; a distinction between two different long form= s?


Moving on, assuming the above is correct, let=E2=80=99s borrow = these examples from the pandoc citation synta= x for markdown (which it also supports in org):


Blah blah [see @doe99, pp. 33-35; also @smith04, chap. 1].<= /p>

Blah blah [@doe99, pp. 33-35, 38-39 and *passim*].


Blah blah [@smith04; @doe99].

So from a = model perspective, a citation in pandoc is a list of one-or-more cites (or = whatever we want to call them), each of which has optional:

  • prefix=C2=A0

  • Locators = (page numbers and such)

  • s= uffix


I believe this is similar to the proposed org mode= l, with one difference: the org proposal adds prefix and suffix for the lis= t (the citation) as a whole.=C2=A0


So the pandoc version is a flat= list, and the org version has two levels.


Am I still understandin= g everything correctly?


So ... am I correct that in none of these = cases can one use the =E2=80=9Cshort=E2=80=9D form, and that the above woul= d look like this converted to the proposed org syntax?


Blah blah [cite:see @doe99 pp. 33-35; also @smith04 chap. 1].


Blah blah [cite:@doe99 pp. 33-35, 38-39 and *passi= m*].


Blah blah [cite:@smith04; @doe99].

While I do wonder if the syntax could = be simplified, my main hope is that it actually gets merged to master and d= eployed, to harmonize the variety of different ways emacs tools (org-ref, e= bib, pandoc, etc.) are dealing with citation links in org currently.=


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