From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id QCucOdDdIl8NFQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:48:48 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id gFedNdDdIl9UAgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:48:48 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EF439403D6 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:48:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34462 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k19rT-0007Jb-EH for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:48:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34512) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k19qy-0007JI-03 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:48:16 -0400 Received: from mail-ua1-x931.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::931]:46878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k19qw-00012C-0Q; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:48:15 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-x931.google.com with SMTP id y2so3827485uaf.13; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q2BiaBPtnQ6/oKNe9q+VovtUIeDInkBigBgpDXdro7k=; b=nWdLJ54vtoC720dpUHjtjc7wn9BTGDC6yUkSb7Sy/mKCY8XSrOtZnZEIa1VY2l4cqq lRDzmCJEqgb6vskNcrznUz8mGzS1VbyU6zSvei2P1Dd8m5injrlAQRDQuea5yrDWiusn Mv3iKZ3w6vvh9hB8fyWahGl8dAqnnTYO1xOa4yH6YSn4ntD5KudS3FsIT7NJaVznSHt1 YuRqR0Jiq/l6DYu90goa/nVYti89lKpekzdF+zQTgU4tKb67qx7MJ0a+cgvHoDknF/jy lhhjuvZiCfTmmcDh+FKlt01E8JDkKDLXHx4xQbSSwkg9Czp6LCaXjSXZW8wVjWteqzQv Lc5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q2BiaBPtnQ6/oKNe9q+VovtUIeDInkBigBgpDXdro7k=; b=rGpH6retoMbNqaDrN8UA18D8ieHNxqBhJj7iAY2l0tj+i0naMvXYpnEAgO90PaqBrI TmWqiybx/3mK0lrznflwRIUCl87rTbPT+3rSMQ3Zz9Fxh89MEZP8RhogIDDip/uD5NwM 0RLX+OisHCLRWWexWBTPwq4v5NNRZTEbW4dzRPaLGSS0SVf5ZR6WK+nPLeOYACGUWmze fDY+ZKstz1v1aPvNW26goiPgR/AN24GEhi6XB2nH4ZoXoXgElo5qZ2ITqlzAP0pLgsxa f4X64FyYPxaiL0rqJsuFWEej6KBGqPjgR2lpt0/mRBD0nRRqRb05eXm+5Zg5YRI5XzSv uU1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531pldx3Zu/RyBVmwz+yYNrNH9J5SRNuCBQDGQpkf95nnJa0Sq8Q PDnm5rqf2XIIPNdgLQImg3fSZAjTaRXly7g0DrI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzx9maay4g9MpC/En+ZuYrx0MJEBN+mYQ3jSZxCC63sAvk3t4y0uQwLF0S9mevB4nXBcyBIX75D99dVpuddRTc= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:278d:: with SMTP id t13mr2275228uap.82.1596120491109; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 07:48:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87zh95g2ns.fsf@gmail.com> <87mu3hduk1.fsf@gmail.com> <87wo2lyvid.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0yldpuj.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87k0yldpuj.fsf@gmail.com> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:47:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Website revamp? To: TEC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4322705aba9c24a" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::931; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x931.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode , Amin Bandali Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=nWdLJ54v; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.09 X-TUID: TynGTO4494cz --000000000000e4322705aba9c24a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW, I think this is a great idea! On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 10:45 AM TEC wrote: > > Hello Russell, Amin, > > Thanks for giving me your thoughts on the idea :) > Your responses have lead me to think that this may lead somewhere. > > Russell Adams writes: > > > My feedback is that personally I don't care about trendy web > > pages. I agree with you that adding JS to simple pages makes > > them horrible. > > Oh absolutely. I don't want any of those JS-laden pages which load > with: > "We're sorry but this doesn't work properly without JavaScript > enabled. Please enable it to continue." > Urgh. No thanks. > > For org, a simple static page of HTML + CSS seems perfect, with > perhaps the odd feature using JS - like copy code block buttons. > > > I would suggest though if you can use an Org-based html theme to > > improve the site, that might be useful. It's always nice to be > > able to self-create instead of using other tools. > > That would be ideal IMO. I'll see if I run into issues with an > org-export based site. > > > I recently tried a read-the-docs theme exported from Org and > > found it very nice, and nearly zero difficulty to integrate. > > That surprised me. > > > If you want another example, check out my config ;) --- > https://tecosaur.github.io/emacs-config/config.html > It's less light weight than what I'm conceptualising, but it's > just produced by org-html-export-to-html ... with a few tweaks > (ok, a lot). > > > > Getting an Org site theme into core that'd do that, and make the > > website export from that template could be a good idea. Or if > > it's already done (I beg ignorance), perhaps updating that > > template could be a good use of your time? > > I think this is what I'll look into first (pending Bastien's > response, of course). > > Amin Bandali writes: > > > Hello, > Hi :) > > > While we wait for Bastien and others to chime in, per your > > question in your original proposal email, if you have not seen > > it already, the repository containing the sources for the > > current Org website seems to be at > > . > > I wasn't aware of that! Thank you very much for bringing it to my > attention. > > > If you have some time, perhaps consider making a quick demo of > > one revamped page, to give folks an idea of what sort of changes > > you imagine? > > I may just have a go at whipping up a 'revamped' index page, I'll > let you all know how that goes. > > > I think the overall design of the Org website is fine, but it > > could use well-thought out enhancements to make browsing around > > and discovering things easier. That said, I personally wouldn't > > be opposed to a bit of a revamp, if the site continues to work > > well without JS and continue to be accessible in text-based > > browsers (like EWW and Lynx). > > As I said earlier, I see no reason for the Org site to be much > more than a simple static page ... just in need of a bit of > massaging into a more aesthetically pleasing shape. > > ----- > > While this may seem like a relatively minor pursuit in the scheme > of things, it is (or at least was in my case) the landing page for > the feature that can draw one into Emacs. > > For the sake of curious individuals who aren't sure what to > expect, I think it's worth some effort to make their first > impression lean more towards "Org is a novel and exciting format, > ahead of it's time" than "Org is some old and crufty format that > hasn't received much love" :P > > While obviously that goes far beyond the styling of orgmode.org, I > do honestly think that it plays a part. > > All the best, > > Timothy. > > --000000000000e4322705aba9c24a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW, I think this is a great idea!

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020= , 10:45 AM TEC <tecosaur@gmail.com= > wrote:

Hello Russell, Amin,

Thanks for giving me your thoughts on the idea :)
Your responses have lead me to think that this may lead somewhere.

Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:

> My feedback is that personally I don't care about trendy web
> pages. I agree with you that adding JS to simple pages makes
> them horrible.

Oh absolutely. I don't want any of those JS-laden pages which load
with:
"We're sorry but this doesn't work properly without JavaScript=
enabled. Please enable it to continue."
Urgh. No thanks.

For org, a simple static page of HTML + CSS seems perfect, with
perhaps the odd feature using JS - like copy code block buttons.

> I would suggest though if you can use an Org-based html theme to
> improve the site, that might be useful. It's always nice to be > able to self-create instead of using other tools.

That would be ideal IMO. I'll see if I run into issues with an
org-export based site.

> I recently tried a read-the-docs theme exported from Org and
> found it very nice, and nearly zero difficulty to integrate.
> That surprised me.

<plug>
If you want another example, check out my config ;) ---
https://tecosaur.github.io/emacs-confi= g/config.html
It's less light weight than what I'm conceptualising, but it's =
just produced by org-html-export-to-html ... with a few tweaks
(ok, a lot).
</plug>

> Getting an Org site theme into core that'd do that, and make the <= br> > website export from that template could be a good idea. Or if
> it's already done (I beg ignorance), perhaps updating that
> template could be a good use of your time?

I think this is what I'll look into first (pending Bastien's
response, of course).

Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> writes:

> Hello,
Hi :)

> While we wait for Bastien and others to chime in, per your
> question in your original proposal email, if you have not seen
> it already, the repository containing the sources for the
> current Org website seems to be at
> <https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/orgweb>.<= br>
I wasn't aware of that! Thank you very much for bringing it to my
attention.

> If you have some time, perhaps consider making a quick demo of
> one revamped page, to give folks an idea of what sort of changes
> you imagine?

I may just have a go at whipping up a 'revamped' index page, I'= ll
let you all know how that goes.

> I think the overall design of the Org website is fine, but it
> could use well-thought out enhancements to make browsing around
> and discovering things easier.=C2=A0 That said, I personally wouldn= 9;t
> be opposed to a bit of a revamp, if the site continues to work
> well without JS and continue to be accessible in text-based
> browsers (like EWW and Lynx).

As I said earlier, I see no reason for the Org site to be much
more than a simple static page ... just in need of a bit of
massaging into a more aesthetically pleasing shape.

-----

While this may seem like a relatively minor pursuit in the scheme
of things, it is (or at least was in my case) the landing page for
the feature that can draw one into Emacs.

For the sake of curious individuals who aren't sure what to
expect, I think it's worth some effort to make their first
impression lean more towards "Org is a novel and exciting format,
ahead of it's time" than "Org is some old and crufty format t= hat
hasn't received much love" :P

While obviously that goes far beyond the styling of orgmode.org, I =
do honestly think that it plays a part.

All the best,

Timothy.

--000000000000e4322705aba9c24a--