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To: Timothy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_DOTEDU=1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email , Nicolas Goaziou Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1625754531; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=rU+fMSYVhVqj+D1p0mZyjLhFRG7qfg26rr39hTz4z/0=; b=ZQpWHuK6OPThml81TPp6IF26TgSJ6vnGY1H3OyBUU7jz99gy6y5R4XOkZ8rPH8gUNM0GZP fUfPCFs1zxhkc3LcgHS5SHDiU/HmJidIUM0fzcw5O9h6dEqz6LGHRZkJ/wq3/ZM332Db35 tn1tIUxrl/qm1WSIKqjfk9HJrggz5p5Q8vSSHS15y2NcMjHRSRAm+d/1562UZwt5YA36DH 7hYOoIAoFHmB9tL10kRXFg4vKY7itf053cP223xvmU2C9ryJzclRYnZjLGccd/183zez7A fl7RXz5yEHyC05M7NksTdmj0/zIKpl38xeho47Y/RE8oQHe4S/3wS/1Dxx5Z4g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1625754531; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mA24has+GmTG3Qecrx97/rgvkouQO9WVQKyV80/e9SgpjnxscxZzX0GdzBbBSoJqHpwkAC WmkQbNnbm4/Se1v4wqqauwGihzQduda/5fXIwcXQMpbSwWIV36lQEAgBAct2qZWrVF4rFv ml/lDzUV9BWUaWNXIvgDAdeGPrzUjLM8R5ViS/oWjYpl2ZAu6E/RiCVuCelsJyj9w9i+F5 1FLGu6I6hwIF4TvIfZ2u/xyQL6aLJcp+PRQFwtIUMVTdIllyMyP5Mv+Pj6S2WFSO4KcAjX RCdjCbByGnEN808SMzyyCU5K7RRVx3Z9ZDS2MvSMEz0SVINeOuBCsdO5cIEclw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=N3Iggqcv; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.31 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=N3Iggqcv; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9B791BC4B X-Spam-Score: -0.31 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: mFr2EUbL5ke9 On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 9:43 AM Timothy wrote: > > Hi Nicolas, > > > At this point, I don=E2=80=99t have enough understanding of the problem= to have > > an opinion. IIUC, your example does not even mention citations. How > > should it be used, what should be the output in LaTeX, and in UTF-8 > > export? This is not clear to me. > > > > What can I say however is: if this feature implies to change, or extend= , > > syntax, then it is /de facto/ a blocker for the merge, and needs to be > > sorted out. > > This very much depends on how you view references vs citations. I persona= lly > think of references as in-text citations (i.e. you=E2=80=99re citing othe= r bits of the > very same document), but I doubt this is a common view (as suggested by o= ther > replies). I'm glad you raised the question, even if it is a bit late. But I indeed don't think your view is common :-) I decided to take a look at what a canonical guide like Chicago Manual of Style says about this. They call these "text references" (though confusingly, they use the word "references" when discussing citations too). For example, there are headings like "3.9: Text references to numbered illustrations". or "2.30: Formatting text references and callouts to tables and illustrations". And then descriptions like "A text reference is addressed to the reader (=E2=80=9Csee table 5,=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cfig. 3.2=E2=80=9D) and w= ill appear in the published version." Here's some stuff from APA, though they don't go into references much. https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/tables-figures/figures And finally, FWIW, MS Word and Open/LibreOffice implement support for this via "cross-references": https://guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=3D283073&p=3D1888264 https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Writer_Guid= e/Using_automatic_cross-references So they may be similar, but are not the same. And the implementation challenges raised by John Kitchin and Joost Kremers (namely the candidate list is different) make this better to deal with using a different mechanism. As a package developer that supports org-cite, I really don't want to be worrying about internal references and such. And as a user, I don't see the benefit of doing so. Effectively, these seem more like org internal links. Bruce