From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id EFtIOEGLxmAFNgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:48:33 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id IG6TM0GLxmBMSAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 22:48:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DE4F1CCA2 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:48:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50634 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYu6-0000wG-RD for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:48:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43766) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYtj-0000vd-9L for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:48:07 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]:54840) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsYth-0001xg-69 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:48:06 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id m3so5770891wms.4 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:48:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1ivYkaqPi+LUM9640bJPOeEGRkx9DV8VF4g12lHe+Sc=; b=SsNIdl1lI/CgsLi+3pmNfIkt/5XqFgPwm3UTT6TE4EguCFI7LV9hFnZ77RMEQaZApl POGCnudtLQ30Og9hfqDTFXlNEDB3jwnlP0mb3sDRjGEZyi21tduDwnKgG5h73NgbShot J0WezvUUen72ShJ/SVCBrX6/mBl7XAFrgvel1kGl5z/67/TmGGgcbEcNtlYiI03OLb+C r1VBG7ejLxBU7lpENp8O4xdn3jD4hHh5urh3b420XWVWAh0p9WiDdnTH3r6irhsOM3N6 jh2ww4lTO2qOz0WZs8c3xQGlxFFoFfZiBBj7/BYAwwz7N0vDkPMmKjraM1hWpczeX7tt /XzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1ivYkaqPi+LUM9640bJPOeEGRkx9DV8VF4g12lHe+Sc=; b=CkbLWDs37FAP0kkdab2iXu9Rs/1xoSU8peEAOCOZlTsKqdkbxtzbNSiT1Y5hGAdMhd Engn46Ejdrm1Zz47JuGXX67n1J+0eVtsZ5NvBU9+yRiOUDepiLFGMxM3Y2huA5pI+dI0 ZQv5elesq4PeSoBLvWrymtL+B/ovtZR7P54mwj3Q0A0zdOKmEjzm92+xrbqT9BtsisGY ydQ1whroDajtM9olWHRVoEKS4yzmfNDVK4q+N7o/iCw8rhMI850NqQzJ0cgCF0FYz7Yn TgNeDhg2IesgMIWCJ8Fv3taFQ96zal3y1cyR9FmLXQE5iQSmnCd3MIldAFUEGT67iOaL 33hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Ju8TYz8Ob9dr+KjADDnFe+PPKxMQvs//+/nyvHXGlMLy1PtJ2 FvNrYbbhp8RgWlbvKPSv4fzmrz2Mjhl7VTvrVfs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuXYnv4DYFIM8byPvO4dmdHLcetAgHdwqZ/67sioAW/iEaWeXmOmROpQ7pPxTP+uQg3cRx6z/h5EKD3FY9yD0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:499a:: with SMTP id h26mr13726085wmp.32.1623624483230; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <81051f87-a90e-56ed-7867-d6179ec1e9ad@mailbox.org> <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> <87h7icatav.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <952cbae3-496c-acea-4ff1-beb9c3306979@mailbox.org> <87zgvvtoay.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <535c4059-e019-0970-afea-efed82b003ac@mailbox.org> <2009852882.89167.1623622988878@office.mailbox.org> In-Reply-To: <2009852882.89167.1623622988878@office.mailbox.org> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:47:51 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations To: Denis Maier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000092579c05c4ad8812" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32f; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List , Nicolas Goaziou Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623624513; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=1ivYkaqPi+LUM9640bJPOeEGRkx9DV8VF4g12lHe+Sc=; b=kD6ivwXMHKVujkMGJnUfqWx5gdAc5EwQivXrgqtMuQ5zJxgNBD5+co4VqJi6T+RYduu89t CkVoRczKenbvDXkL1Bbu4ItRUVetQq5VXdiRw981wlkgdVsw+nfxnFMS6IX1XckO7KHOiJ +89KT2AzkWer+jchkC+8s4yZdkCU6z+k/dWhMmB3DbO+svuBEDHXnT1bmpLpmfMK3/P85Q CxkCYCojUdLLp62o2PilDqw6m2w9LgcAkT72MnQ7uhxZ5rQDmOOAKOUEjQRtBFY/EHERjS Bw0hjTjyTpGaqSOVSj/NxP7uQTTKCSqSpQxNBrG8yZu0GAyJ9x1Kgx3w8Ya2vA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623624513; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qkr2oTMMBlnfgz2/huAiqXuHH3b0JTkkvoBXAofFpvqkvQtIdzq0scAtPfTzMs86gWCXMY WVa/m9c02XIuBPJtmHeXPKEfoM/hCOzzPw8qEj1BZuPxMKoOcUP50VvU0KVXdDpNLR7vBQ v6wrqVbPI37QOHk/5Ijk6PF18KtL5SLeAUl2vSfxqXozajZcbkQhnXPSudrRpZyQmOyzsF cdbh+iwGQHOqX3dQDnKCgXNXaUFcF1+JHpwUno8Kvbbius6/+pW6FOUQvf+h8VIDYI6g2u gvxKUHD1O3aaR6BJEcO97lyCr3sBsFXWASfSlgzP3wXXA7UzM7IHWyC2EL8Gzg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SsNIdl1l; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SsNIdl1l; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3DE4F1CCA2 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 377x7ZEFShPA --00000000000092579c05c4ad8812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'll let you two sort it out; I don't have a position. On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 3:23 PM Denis Maier wrote: > > Bruce D'Arcus hat am 14.06.2021 00:04 geschrieben: > > > Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, > > IIRC, it was out of scope ATM. > > and gave a reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstruct > missing information IIRC). > > That's where I disagree. I think the opposite is true. > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:54 PM Denis Maier wrote: > > Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: > > Hello, > > > > Denis Maier writes: > > > >> Yes, good this is coming. > > > > As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for > > note numbers handling. > > > > I added three customizable variables: > > > > - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the user to toggle > > punctuation and note number moving (on by default). > > > > - org-cite-note-rules, which defines what rules to apply according to > > locale, expressed as a language tag, as in RFC 4646. > > > > - org-cite-punctuation-marks, which lists strings recognized as > > punctuation in the process. > > > > `csl' and `basic' processors now both make use of this. > > > > I'd appreciate some feedback, in particular about the docstrings of the > > variables above. I focused on the "note numbers" topic instead of > > "punctuation" since I found the latter too generic. > > > > Also, there are some points that may need to be discussed: > > > > - I'm not sure about the `org-cite-punctuation-marks' variable being > > global, i.e., not locale-specific. > > > > - There is no support for this in LaTeX-derived back-ends, because > > I don't know when a citation is going to become a footnote. As > > a reminder, there is no "\footcite" command in `biblatex' processor. > > OTOH, users might prefer using a more advanced mechanism, e.g., > > csquotes. > > > > - It doesn't do anything special in quote blocks, because I'm still not > > sure there is something to do. AFAIU, special casing there only > > applies to author-date location, which out of the scope of this code. > > > > WDYT? > > Ok, I've managed to test this a bit, and I think this looks pretty good > so far. > > The only question I'd still have is if this could somehow also cover the > reverse situation (going from a note style to author-date). I've noticed > that simply adding a new language rule doesn't work anymore---as opposed > to my initial tests with earlier iterations of that mechanism. Seems > like this mechanism is now only triggered when using a note based style. > > Best, > Denis > > > > > Regards, > > > > --00000000000092579c05c4ad8812 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll let you two sort it out; I don't have a posi= tion.

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 3:23 PM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com> hat am 14.06.2021 00:04 = geschrieben:


Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope,
IIRC, it was out of scope ATM.
and gave a reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstr= uct missing information IIRC).
That's where I disagree. I think the opposite is true.

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:54 PM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.o= rg> wrote:
Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou:
> Hello,
>=20
> Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> w= rites:
>=20
>> Yes, good this is coming.
>=20
> As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more su= pport for
> note numbers handling.
>=20
> I added three customizable variables:
>=20
> - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the user = to toggle
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 punctuation and note number moving (on by defaul= t).
>=20
> - org-cite-note-rules, which defines what rules to apply acco= rding to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 locale, expressed as a language tag, as in RFC 4= 646.
>=20
> - org-cite-punctuation-marks, which lists strings recognized = as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 punctuation in the process.
>=20
> `csl' and `basic' processors now both make use of thi= s.
>=20
> I'd appreciate some feedback, in particular about the doc= strings of the
> variables above. I focused on the "note numbers" to= pic instead of
> "punctuation" since I found the latter too generic.
>=20
> Also, there are some points that may need to be discussed:
>=20
> - I'm not sure about the `org-cite-punctuation-marks'= variable being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 global, i.e., not locale-specific.
>=20
> - There is no support for this in LaTeX-derived back-ends, be= cause
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I don't know when a citation is going to bec= ome a footnote. As
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a reminder, there is no "\footcite" co= mmand in `biblatex' processor.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 OTOH, users might prefer using a more advanced m= echanism, e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 csquotes.
>=20
> - It doesn't do anything special in quote blocks, because= I'm still not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure there is something to do. AFAIU, special ca= sing there only
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 applies to author-date location, which out of th= e scope of this code.
>=20
> WDYT?

Ok, I've managed to test this a bit, and I think this looks pr= etty good=20
so far.

The only question I'd still have is if this could somehow also= cover the=20
reverse situation (going from a note style to author-date). I'= ve noticed=20
that simply adding a new language rule doesn't work anymore---= as opposed=20
to my initial tests with earlier iterations of that mechanism. See= ms=20
like this mechanism is now only triggered when using a note based = style.

Best,
Denis

>=20
> Regards,
>=20

--00000000000092579c05c4ad8812--