From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id KEXnHs+4n2D5AgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 14:04:31 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id uP2JGs+4n2AVFQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 12:04:31 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC57E23824 for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 14:04:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38960 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lht1x-0001UO-Th for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:04:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lht1B-0001UG-NM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:03:41 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]:34534) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lht18-00064Y-RX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:03:41 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id r12so1720643wrp.1 for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 05:03:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rYPhZFeOv1Kt37iF8YyspYyha+Br5v23llOzq39+YNI=; b=qcZm5oC4V214w8d95rEBTDJOXN7Jgx0y8Hc4AZ8Cuybp83asrSsSL33DYKiHW03/n3 MPkk1xuCEwlDblzERh3zWRsXoBjwCOV7zPqFCMR+GVnzafe2gM8TuzfGkLaKuMVfPyBl EYclw251zMI5MUvqpW1Smmrn3gEcWHq2wkSJeIv+UPPPo08BHUoMKMhpVMCIYYlNozk7 qy4vmvBe1/HkX8LIRDggcce4aRd76LTqg2Hbdl/tcCzpzMRyfrp9kgT6G18rT+VohaMe T2pVYOyg40pow0bBq7kSj7xGSBks/Wl8Lvnw4v2wD2o9eQPgm76G4a6fW/m8/jWrL2n1 jJeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=rYPhZFeOv1Kt37iF8YyspYyha+Br5v23llOzq39+YNI=; b=oJ4th6WpYDW/7X1/f14OVJtBi2ztGd023A2xuoh2YwCMWO+4hKyQoQrIeIthq9bZHk LBbw/dtXgEUVsMqwdsgIw0mUEBpL+VeUi3S9cr+povdPDDzzHo9BE5zadrrdkHemJFnl yQUgmE1ehVm5bFpoct2jf/et9baqM3ra9DJ1aFGf4J45KmQqTlo1tanJ4QCWL2GfW4Vr EvkcbtpLPoiRScyT9d8cuGJyluz2ZnXx2TzLX+x1vRODYxFPHt+tCeBEgt8TFgBC3mOa 9DJcRPsKKK3wTLaUsIqTJtgO+9no2lFkoVjPjYDJRcRBGgWapX/ZtONgRYF77efpmp0J owFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xLBNAO3vzPSetpIRW3VhxFb1BHT6L9DH8aZPPdP0RWHai+bh/ xGE0Bmm6q0H6XDS+kMIUvALdNRRmZXCXZ08waPr244dlMrE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFSB/6OpF/2gzwnI2vPDS3znYP75dNL6bwmqT5LVVUjTnlstBgpLtHYab9mSJa8yL5BNosEPkvcw87WJecmFI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4291:: with SMTP id k17mr61931217wrq.423.1621080215258; Sat, 15 May 2021 05:03:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 08:03:24 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations To: Org Mode List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621080271; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=rYPhZFeOv1Kt37iF8YyspYyha+Br5v23llOzq39+YNI=; b=pSc0i1R1Snd5T/0edR0Z8LwMpbeV3hCVqf9hevtLtfwmVv8DKon2P+TCuPcgGuaf6Kp7AD BLdd5pGt73F3XN5JVXy3RFAijVGfJ6TQ9n5ryfI0/hC3IM7HnnyL9I+q3LIIl1MGK69V2M SjRGD+2t3V1XsVG4U4UJukdZUIBDUSiULe1Xj/q2q/DOpYM6Hv6VAMpbARgXiHiLYgD52R N5h6ZkEPrhFGxX/FkOE1dfajx/LgXslcearCVvoDofeIKMIrv8PAV4bV/NgruBpYORp7By RuAJI/9VuKQVDUFsgo9UCoAtagwabkvfJC4A0mWZLMIZWYa8J4w02xVhoBXHAw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621080271; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=PqMVvxQDedz7HwcGmdBEVKIzbhFVYPKx2nhUsYvGBCLO6Z9z4swhOXqCyuj2DhGlM2dSQB JJ0cPE0QUNj6THDib4Wdvrq2WHIDUxcPUvJKO2Mfl5c7W/y6BjXvjmVIH0NQuSKq/OYoRh saZGtMlxG/8hZyrCS9xmqKLK7KE1XdpA8VpZl+hIaUy5aiOmgTwWkS0Z47tD/OAS2b9BCP DefI4YQOfwmByQR8/UIdTSl+WhM+XypPmV8MxQyKomUV/smJW8F7H17vng+rINq5xGCGBI mFXAF6Wbym1BBGTYfrHsA2jygkoyJUFtDf4wMK1RahPoaWg5ZkGfr9CjT/FT9Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qcZm5oC4; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.81 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qcZm5oC4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DC57E23824 X-Spam-Score: -3.81 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: cgCWweBGncTq On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 7:56 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: ... > At the moment, the `org-cite-adjust-punctuation' function is designed > with author-year to note conversion in mind, not the other way. I don't > have enough examples of the opposite transformation to even be sure the > current interface would be appropriate. I even believe this is not often > possible, as it would imply rewording, i.e., add information that is not > present in the original document. > > This doesn't seem to be a limitation, though. This feature is useful for > users having to switch between author-year and note styles. The rule of > thumb is to always write author-year in source. > > In any case, this explains why the docstring has a bias. I updated it to > insist on the fact that these are rules for author-year to note > conversion. FWIW, I agree with this decision. High level, the basic logic says to a user if you need to cite something, insert a citation, and let your citation processor take care of the rest. Whether that final output is a number, a footnote mark, or an author-date representation, it should "just work." Going the other way doesn't really make sense from that perspective. A user can still place a citation in a footnote manually. Bruce