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To: Tom Gillespie Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32d; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email , John Kitchin Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628680450; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=NVdQgR3ngvBiNNLiDMdiB9jfXuBorWBDBqFATLSxZsc=; b=Q8I5cIFKCYbNFYLi+lLSmxbuhAWXHKQP3AMCZuerqZJdxD6XD2gsQp0FLEkoMLITU8Op1z 0qDKbGPqK1sYUepfeF7I9q0+Iw9PiQqtooYBuUi1wEA9WG/4VLXYJPOU3pqyzq9eVPW57e Hzq2QdISgh1blWDxn2TIR7h4+ujCZwUR5LRhdsVB5vBZ9rgx68RMWm5JtOMtg5VJpOrDgc B2b2wvZUvW6MNRsTc16AAk6POs5iz5BulJGIqV4Yziwu/WXIiM2aZFtm+Mya0NIv90rTnG zzeYQiyQbOkpAyCqm+iut5hDNDtRy151ZxjXhoOBdrMK+ScT4aR3Nl1YohhEXA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628680450; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=up0ZWuWD5aacaUt9oOh/hGnyN0GbnWKCo4t5xAMBKzAsBkp/g/kqsCTDLviMuRwvoT5bPJ 8h7QShRvX1FROlAqw5EecmhRO9hj03R+ViG3OiyZKpD4CilxUg5SEE8z++rhxBMKhHw50F W4s/sRLgMfgzHPTBAMcua/7AdJPE1niLzSS6LKKLf4CJnLjSJRnGnwR7VzrG0JNeTNwM9a ok/I4em1NZY673ZgU6lfHzHts3Uz1uX7oAzjiCWfl4uXKW4YePnd/qotfl1xVUmkFOCOza 5HiPtGCyZWhrEh1YfR4JHNewTeuIch4ci9cDCa//DNX+c0IicMmZP7aZ4jfD8Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Icjhinci; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.31 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Icjhinci; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5EB911D1B X-Spam-Score: -0.31 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 05VEYto6kK0h Here's a recent subthread on this question: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2021-07/msg00233.html At the end of that discussion, my argument against using citations for cross-references: 1. Cross-references are not citations, neither conceptually, nor in software implementations. In LaTeX, MS Word, Libre office, InDesign, etc, cross-references are handled differently than citations. There, they are typed internal links. You can get a sense of how this works in this tutorial for Word, which includes a list of cross-reference types, and so hints at the range of things people need to internally reference: https://www.customguide.com/word/how-to-cross-reference-in-word 2. As John and Joost noted on that thread, because they're different, they raise a range of implementation questions, most notably for me what org-cite processors are supposed to do with these citations that are not citations. As it is now, the user would just get errors and/or unexpected output. On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 1:28 AM Tom Gillespie wrote: ... > Actually, having written this now, I think that both solutions have > their own use cases. Org cite is clearly about providing evidence for, > or a scholarly reference for something, and critically it can embed > some metadata about that reference in the document as a citation or > perhaps as an excerpt (and extension of what org-ref does now when the > cursor is over a reference?). Regular links do not provide any way to > embed metadata within the document, they are purely pointers. Right, which is what a cross-reference is. It's just there needs to be some way to distinguish among types of targets, I think. > I think it would be a mistake to use up equation/eq and table/tbl or > figure/fig prefixes for references that are internal to org, because it implicitly > limits/collides with the #+link: keyword. Is there a workaround for this somehow, or an alternative that gets the same thing in the end? Bruce