From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id IMaWN1E/kl4+BgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 22:06:09 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id KL+6MFM/kl61MQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 22:06:11 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DAD668262B for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 22:06:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56884 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNOGN-0005Xv-9q for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:06:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54330) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNOFx-0005WI-JM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:05:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNOFw-0005Dc-At for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:05:41 -0400 Received: from mail-vs1-xe32.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32]:33746) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNOFw-0005DU-7K for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:05:40 -0400 Received: by mail-vs1-xe32.google.com with SMTP id y126so1061588vsy.0 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HVGyOC7QGeCr7D6bOXHFFXCLyc2K+hUvCeJFF8gOUyM=; b=ZHkjPNPKOgmwlsB+dr9cvY66tTS5r2oNGKJ5q6gxL16BAgPaeiCxBWa5Xkru8CMHFY HbZcBh9NoaAfZgiJy8VSv673QDxkcZ92GkabNMk8DppYrC81gZa+uqXDZ7GZjrJ2QB1q daw+CZIqlTG3rXYmclneQcQFHvotm4Ou9gpqsXiZqV9zdokk3qDVhYglp+iE2qKlq11z AfHiYjSd6lzEeyK0FO8fYhuwOEgLCxrvEINzsu+rljoYdT3tkMnRhnZTwBMD5u31k38m 47hdQtQO8mxliiXEw035e/WUHvN+3Vtf3byjXTYcWrbGJobK0e6BZJ/inHq054dsDDLe JRpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HVGyOC7QGeCr7D6bOXHFFXCLyc2K+hUvCeJFF8gOUyM=; b=NC2I+2GV9VlrlwXZEHlYHKs6u/7Sfpq/rzRgP0Rmy/qkmrjuJ6PFbASoMY8sZys+XI F5RFclm82VgnImsRLpFZxrOHzx+vGqDJbxHWlcBU80Z1IARz88KSMPziGXrtMkjQLc90 /bP5ODc7NVujPH2+/UCFnyWxP6i6/x9RnVmX2rtx680GS7fqI3/M/onfeWqN1zAfi5nh XGSmzr0H+xPb1pqhu9UnjjKBMmL7DiON38ezJSCaaDs5dOXa9V51IcEpLTMLFl1wmB+T vXSqpZYXg5t2+zA4z15EjZF7tr20bj2WryQeUVVKVPALT03o5aZ8ofE6vMHVbsU+8F3m +e+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubPmia6RKY4LA/S5lnqfHyn5b2Di86e0v2MlMpvMsdruiGUH7H+ PKEDKz3yzn13mqqMNbcBmrF972vUEZd79OpcpDv0Q1Uc294= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK6IeAQAzIskH0J6shR5W2xL9EY0J4mErwZr08xFNveZH20ywsaAlBEkb3mxs9SbAdTKgP6MARippNrXgLxVR0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:28c7:: with SMTP id o190mr7797731vso.48.1586642738939; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:05:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> In-Reply-To: <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:05:27 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ZHkjPNPK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.57975656789102]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.29), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bdarcus@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: w87ORyF69kgO On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 5:43 PM wrote: ... > Well, that depends on your target. If you aim for CSL than that's already= fairly complete. (Even it's more than complete since the current CSL speci= fication only knows normal citations. Suppressing authors is done by callin= g applications, and AuthorInText is a pandoc-specific addition.) Suppress author is not specific to pandoc; it's used in other CSL applications like Zotero and Mendeley. > If you aim for biblatex than there's still a long way to go. > Concerning "cite", "(cite)", and "citep" > > 1. In CSL the basic citation depends on the class of the citation style. = Citations appear either as parenthetical citations or in notes. > It's not a huge deal, but nevertheless... > > 2. "citep" is much better than "(cite)", but it is also inaccurate as lon= g as CSL is concerned. > > So, I'd rather suggest something along these lines: > > cite: =3D> note citation or parenthetical citation =3D> (Doe 2020) > citet =3D> narrative cite =3D> Doe (2020) > > Of course, you might argue that this is too closely tied to CSL. You coul= d also adopt natbib's cite, citet, citep commands, or biblatex's many cite = commands... My only suggestion is to retain the goal of being able to change back-and-forth from in-text and note-based styles without needing to modifying the document source. The pandoc syntax meets that goal. Biblatex (and likely bibtex) does not, where you have dedicated citation commands for footcites and such, and so have to modify document source to make those changes in output. The downside to the suppress author approach is you have to explicitly write the author name in the text when doing things like the citet example above. So the above would be "Doe [-doe2020]" in pandoc. I've never found that a problem, but reasonable people disagree. I'm not 100% sure, but I think citet meets that goal also, so Denis' suggestion might work. Bruce