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To: John Kitchin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::431; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x431.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Tom Gillespie , org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628696554; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=3UViBdCf2FDgyK4lGi60MZYHoeZuBO8GBvnu1PRWO+E=; b=jytQVtitVOyDjVaCGCZly66a4ayInbEnA4PRJFYc7mglWSp5wUtyLs8C1u5kxlzwlxcFxn x7dWNIoACWDKBu0EIUvTJWwg7iObSyFlcWsU1qxSmmxhRZD0YWcz3USujN/2qN9pnsaCdn FVmM/S6Sl5mJF/6Fqwi9MRKx/kN9aUNPPFSPYHHHh8t3h/uB34cfqD2Kj7/39L+El4mp0d mPAw8s/P2kDGWFOxVU9/f9tLhbAF11uUa1Q8FQUMndRLHZG7T6JsVfv3UPfk7WWCpFdKPH l/5gfq6LbEaDb8gvFsnrgrf733TmJnuhVkLdrjq9loJMydzW1hS22XmdIBCGRg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628696554; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lyRKsP/rheHxGmUpW4vcFKtXHWn3C89ItUZsaGIvlkPralIEjoIMG7AJFmw077RVv58Lz+ F/YduUl+ccByI0a+N3nTNnB4JXBt5bNgfXwre9ZIzHbU2hWshwD3OBoNDLzC8gMbHmRmbt OuzCZ3uQYQcGYSAzeWq+dDjb7YI2HL8+7yQb4K7uy9s5Gs5vhkUgP3DbGXnXR2LgJi3BxD 1hBgd/K92CmNxGimVrdJ3gcJFlSLRJ41Y0EPbVknt5m4aO/fF81mQpZr6BgEregkwnFQlX VmgmOWz+kE88WKXca7hXLTXr0eFUUzvZICuMzpIZwS7yzEvtwAOQc3V8ZBWHNg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=X2b1a7Xh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=X2b1a7Xh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C05F0C080 X-Spam-Score: -2.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: lj8lsBiJe8ZT On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 10:56 AM John Kitchin wro= te: > This is a bad idea to me. It is only a fuzzy link (what you call a typed = internal link) if no one has defined it as an external link. As soon as tha= t happens, then you will lose the export behavior defined for fuzzy links, = and get the behavior defined by the export function. The syntax for these i= s the same (I guess a fuzzy link must be wrapped in [[ ]], but an external = link may also be wrapped that way). I don't see a way to differentiate the= se. I guess this is a key question then; sounds like maybe internal links are too loosely defined? BTW, I was using the language from the org-mode manual to avoid confusion. https://orgmode.org/manual/Internal-Links.html >> 2. extend citations, per your idea here, which to me means the >> org-cite code would need to be revised and expanded to handle both >> cross-references and citations, but do so distinctly. > > I don't think so. You only have to extend them where you want to have the= capability. org-cite can stay a citation only body of code, and if you wan= t cross-references too you just use my processors, or write one that does w= hat you want. Except now, org-cite and all the extant processors assume a citation-reference key corresponds to a bibliographic (mostly either bibtex or csl json) entry, which identifies an external source. Surely that has implications for compatibility if adding cross-referencing, unless existing code is changed to account for that? With your suggestion, for example, I presume org-cite-insert would be used to insert and edit cross-references, rather than org-insert-link or org-insert-cross-reference? Aside from whether that makes sense from a UX perspective, those references wouldn't be found unless a UI explicitly accounted for them. And an activate processor that wasn't updated would treat them as bad citations. Maybe the changes would be small; IDK. Hopefully Nicolas can weigh in on th= is. > You don't have to. Your processors should fail gracefully in any case, be= cause you just cannot control what people will do with the styles. The issue for me is less what you are proposing to do with styles (which in my case I construct from org-cite-supported styles), than with citation-reference. Per above, a citation-reference is just not a cross-reference. IDK; perhaps if this path makes sense in the end, it might be cleaner to add a citation-cross-reference element, or maybe even better to just have a parallel cross-reference object that borrows some of the design of org-cite? > The biggest issue with 1 is I don't think it is possible to differentiate= internal typed links from external links because they use the same syntax.= It would be very difficult to support and troubleshoot a scenario where th= e same syntax shows different behavior depending on whether an external lin= k is defined or not. Finally, it is so close to what org-ref already does, = I think it is too tricky to differentiate [[ref:label]] from [[ref/:label]]= , etc. > > Maybe these links would look different enough (as external links) that it= would be really clear you were not using org-ref. > > ref/:@label > ref/eq:@label > ref/page:@label > ref/name:@label > ref/c:@label > ref/C:@label > > However, this doesn't support using prefix/suffix text, which is one of = the main reasons the cite syntax came to be. OK. That would be another requirement that tips the balance to citation, or something very similar. Bruce