From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id SPiMGR64kmDFqQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 17:22:06 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 6O5AFR64kmBlUwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 15:22:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4AF9AF62 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 17:22:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39012 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leJLh-00087s-3a for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 11:22:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35542) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leJKQ-00085a-Gw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 11:20:46 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]:40811) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1leJKM-00088O-L3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 05 May 2021 11:20:46 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id y124-20020a1c32820000b029010c93864955so3647777wmy.5 for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 08:20:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=52BOLYlKUtHRDxK92tXRdmA9mwmMJuCYvbj6vVHm7u4=; b=ePrI+R4KxQMr4y8A7d7qMLlyNm50Pmr+8uE7a+dUV+chB5ZlbZPbj8pS/PNo1+TmrS UAgNZCpSSoKyEUxlwl+w7ovRquG/+atK0Ul1SRybrwY6feuwhR3ogM/TMpT5BG47EKTg EgRVirnDXvrqZKr4E0VTAOhYej02VGevpaQuCMzLyEaB6H3oqHnT3cxjZN48bCfXt5jw TXKsfSe+HmlNbp2XJIz2jt46b8gtNs8YRwBRcLNstM1CyMAWEeKGzf7/UB514wuJEeGf vYX2LXL8KE/tJ1ptnO+8A2yFiNrXO0/3rwB3Rbd3nBJxFejW64uJxcg8AYsSglMUXsNb 2H/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=52BOLYlKUtHRDxK92tXRdmA9mwmMJuCYvbj6vVHm7u4=; b=ibjAbaxQ9V9i2oVEzIzo6Lvish5vLhYxRADuZV/b44OfzLuitlvbGD+gUSyIbSbNh7 bb2syJBuaIjFgHQ8ob9NpiNXT7wbr+Pa5u8AvdzKOCPezHeu0e4J/jnHTlBde2+UZeoi 7Ls7FNtXqvCBoARWapOqOojQq/eBRMTM0g995ohWq6eU+yhVZbxsprgCUxC54Gts5Ju4 4FQrT8DaA4biqiu/QZOSmRtc10lMD5g0qRCBxDXiBWRxPnpjuUSzbNr+WujsOUUFFuOi zKgjqwRWi5GsGiF5g1+PoW1rPOG9A+PFOH/+kz27J/KDlbYHXyBiR5gd3WTCuQcbNIxa a4Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533EpWDJtQDMhj8/StT0HADBuEAZBPS/FUPkaT4IAtAK1Ym9ax3k KOf0aV0rPUp0SBc3b9ldSJIgi0Dj+rvqHnSr9/7yqtMsb7+X6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1r0UcwOh3eXx6VsGy2oS0nJRUbvrknvQjgqOG36B64YDQOdY20ZeeAEHBZvDAPqiAgbKt/XhsqEGsNAK/6ok= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:19d4:: with SMTP id u20mr34235858wmq.133.1620228040581; Wed, 05 May 2021 08:20:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87eeel44gt.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87eeel44gt.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 11:20:31 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] New natbib processor To: Org Mode List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32b; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620228126; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=52BOLYlKUtHRDxK92tXRdmA9mwmMJuCYvbj6vVHm7u4=; b=FvyixXxuvpAUzGFGtYy71RQrA9zMCb2YgAzvq4dzkKIBLx/nk+hJNFassYJIcfnH3GNtFN JBvgbfGkHd0i1Wb2mlhMXuiYnAsARbSfojgSI9jQvpweTA9eqeeEmUSnrqlv/JqqDTZl0W qjKGfZ1tmgoX72c97ienJlyzHx5FO51KoNwjZ/WJi1ANIdy11R00S58iPQV3F8ftyXAU7L cl2Oc4k04zkLbE/hF9KboerSI8qRgp3lz+xbtq2/csThBpCg2emUqD1Rzfi4f5P0eDOpLU eaH2PPyp4XmzLaKMRxGZkSCIgGFdlbQXBXlRjaHaNErddnPmKayzG7qvQu7eXg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620228126; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=T20jZXzu3p3NrFpGDvf18frWiIPR6KXF/TuqokjjGZuRlNhNF73FgV1/G86+2wNbl53zbf o2h6TN5DotdPaempUOGO/kU1kQDqX8SvpHhx8YDYXoUcczDSJ3w/hUXUeh/A2ptu6PIWIP CJ7zWeBbJxdRPjcLIZHGqFBE3DNjbIB/O/oCbMOb3Q+Yfd+JFSYyy2DMyXSs8M8fIUx92b auKY4GHXmY31XRxq1kVFO9qSzwjm3x7hqOtuhoo0wvcjgLdWeHJ9nVGM1AdK5rEt7wqnA9 04ESs/Dd7s9EWJ0tR6KbxOVQL918DouMKuhRHL+Uo21y0bykBINuMOIgvWVNqw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ePrI+R4K; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.17 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ePrI+R4K; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E4AF9AF62 X-Spam-Score: -3.17 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: yfhUfKyGsrAD On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 10:53 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Another thread! Yay! We should be close to the finish line! > I just added a new `natbib' processor in "wip-cite-new" branch, in the > file "oc-natbib.el" Awesome! > However, I'm not convinced by them [sub-styles]. > > On the bright side, sub-styles can be put in any order, so we're > avoiding combinatorial explosion of commands. > > However, they do not play well with shortcuts. For example, if shortcut > for "caps" is "C" and "full" is "F", > > [cite/text/caps/full:...] is equivalent to [cite/t/C/f:...] > > which is not great. I'm just going to focus on these points. The question comes down to whether to support sub-styles or not, and if yes, what the syntax should be. I think it makes more sense to include them because otherwise you end up with an insanely long list of styles, which won't map well onto different kinds of output formats. E.g. biblatex users will want like 20 commands available, which won't all work with other formats. Also consider that for processors, they're going to have to map those internally to something like styles+sub-styles anyway. So I think sub-styles are good for users and developers alike. Syntax? I see your point on short-cuts; maybe your previous idea would work better; a plus-separated list? [cite:t/a+f+c] ... and the full names: [cite:text/alt+full+caps] Even if not perfect, I think it's a small price to pay for the benefits. Bruce