From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id GMOwLTStkV5FFQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:42:44 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id +FT9KDatkV4EUgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:42:46 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6315682D22 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:42:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50964 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNEX4-0000T1-AP for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:42:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49221) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNEWP-0000PS-02 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:42:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNEWN-00059r-Nm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:42:00 -0400 Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]:40152) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNEWN-00059n-KP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:41:59 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a10so1510007uad.7 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 04:41:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=182Ui683nDyz/PGr0T+QJvkBpWx2NHtKV5VfkP8H5KA=; b=dLITPwyweKYKNIo87NaQd+ORUZp1TioUvH12bcc6EAvOTGteLO1XnpryLhl73Bcth1 w3WMBmRLYpvg5Q4FnH8HqAAuMoR5svyHVPy1z69J2Mprtbzl1ARBQdZTXjQHVMMV2w+O I5TUJKcqe3ANUlmnwhsLqsLTz9lkm3Py0bMcbd9yfEnVBKr9wfbZLsx1fX1QfaQqEspa 6GCLwrLxQ168zSAckwA5aBIBgYoYI+P/87sSR5Lznw83GBIFO8Ctj8tzOoHPqx9weT6t UzwvLm4nwbSKgcRuCqy1e+XsbfT+zWggn3/KP45eriSxzuKgslmVqr2UIV0I0kGCCJ1P YHvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=182Ui683nDyz/PGr0T+QJvkBpWx2NHtKV5VfkP8H5KA=; b=lHg7trafmTbjmqFYfgUD5+/EtliliA79mPKWaguhCtLEcAE8rUhWUtfBGkH8+PCA7t Ozute9NUEbIONOUNy0rD2TujAJcUfc6hp5tY1yyLGmcbT9s8t9Na83OGzMeLQ/oAp6vb JDG8ybuTrvzz9uW6Pq4FmI15tsqfPktOMQlCMFgjrVxrPBNlJgq5IbnJlRkEUXXZ64Nj rpk/OSc8cjIChQ4sN6Ecoo2MmhqFOWD7yaL8/unxSFOHIptQexNI8Qmd2rLdXFeciM2e 7SV1XWimev8ovV3FpAbxBeQhtmdj1EUd4Ef2vpnYz78RJ3OZcS0oPgquExHhb8LlFWCB V12A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZVztPKar44Xhm5kBRomTwgVTtgcP+IlyLatgvZLCSeRrmq81zv Rn23xzFKkGPH6QW8oMO0dcDY5p/HRGmKSwkBr0vEKKIbyT4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLqZKANpfPBMiSrC7oTWvWRmnswm7M80vXNsGlKNbUGAjVTtoAucHYSO5SmP0+YFj54KLUJTnPF5ADXHahTCyo= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:2484:: with SMTP id 4mr6083788uar.6.1586605318342; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 04:41:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8s389r0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: org-mode-email Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::935 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=default; t=1586605364; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=182Ui683nDyz/PGr0T+QJvkBpWx2NHtKV5VfkP8H5KA=; b=iDiPwhgrDXK2//JvMv7dzDHtJZ5Ye6o+mN/zGLBy+z+ScCx0IAqR+hGOYRCy5K2PaKrtm+ c8YKoUPqdYFWOwWfwWgZ9jgRxF17Iga99rSXGyxZBqg9QPnwCYm+cHmNT7Wc+EkXvnMow1 zMH5Jiq7cwm/g6nHFyxcGKJ1rmTIZx8= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=default; d=yhetil.org; t=1586605364; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CFcy5b6VzmKmSFmdBRLKUQoapnnS0TrX1+Wv01W2Av7a92NKq/hPCyCIwaKX8wGu89kKdo sbwEA+lzJh2c9/GS4kgMy9gxiAkWpu9/f1kQImrqq6tGv4PtVebuu8qQJ/r3Mv243xs3K2 sZt1jZjmECfQIR4/r+GgNfcKbdtpp4o= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dLITPwyw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dLITPwyw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.57957978876175]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.30), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; ARC_SIGNED(0.00)[i=1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bdarcus@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: BLyDbrm8XQBo On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 5:32 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: [snip] > Sounds like a plan. Let me summarize it a bit : > > 1. [ ] Finalize Org citation syntax. It is mostly good, but we need to > decide about the following points: > > - [ ] Should it include both "(cite):" and "cite:", i.e., does it > make sense to provide a (very limited) style specification piece > wise? There are two questions here; right? So (cite:) is the standard citation form (in the pandoc syntax [@doe19]), and cite: is the bare variant @doe19? On the latter, probably yes, depending on how ready citeproc.el/org is to take over processing for more advanced needs. > - [ ] Should it include /global/ prefix and suffix? On further reflection, and discussion on the csl forum, I think yes. The flat pandoc syntax works well, but does break down in one situation: Where you have a multicite, and where the output processor resorts them. Global affixes would fix that. > - [ ] Should we keep the short specification, i.e., "[@key]"? If you kept it, would it be possible to allow more than one key? So something like [@doe17; @doe18]? > - [ ] What kind of markup do we allow in a citation? At the moment > the exhaustive list is: bold, code, entity, italic, latex-fragment, > strike-through, subscript, superscript, underline, verbatim and > line breaks. I don't see any downside to being liberal here. Do you? Though most common by far, I think, would be just bold and italic. > 2. [ ] Decide about API Org should provide for it to be useful. Here are > some low hanging fruits: > > - [ ] List all ".bib" files associated to the document, > > - [ ] List all citations, > > - [ ] Return citation key at point, if any. > > - Anything else? > > Moreover, we need to decide about how external processors could plug > into the export framework. > > - [ ] For example, it could be a simple variable bound to a list of > functions. Each function accepts three arguments: the export > back-end, as a symbol, the full citation, as a list of triplets > (key, prefix, suffix) along with global prefix/suffix, and the > usual INFO communication channel. Does it need more? > > - [ ] Also, the prefix/suffix may contain some Org markup, so this > needs to be also processed. Should it happen before, or after the > external processor does its job? I.e., should the function > translate into Org or target format? Obviously on the above group of questions, would be really good to hear from Andras, but the citeproc-el docs should be helpful? https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-el#usage > 3. [ ] Specify the kind of basic translation that be done out of the > box? Ideally, every non-derived back-end should do something, even > basic. Therefore, we need to propose some translation pattern for > each of the following: > > - [ ] ASCII > > - [ ] HTML > > - [ ] LaTeX > > - [ ] ODT > > - [ ] Texinfo So this would the default output for each format. This would be assuming, to go back to earlier posts here, basic formatting built it, and not integrating citeproc-el? Bruce