From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id MF5SLiJLsmB+vwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 29 May 2021 16:09:38 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id QB6WKSJLsmBnOgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 29 May 2021 14:09:38 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11F5A1B738 for ; Sat, 29 May 2021 16:09:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58840 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmzej-0001hL-3v for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 10:09:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46484) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmze9-0001hC-UO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 10:09:01 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]:34351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lmze8-0007cr-9U for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 29 May 2021 10:09:01 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id f11so6087722wrq.1 for ; Sat, 29 May 2021 07:08:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kfMMTTByVbwzjM896dND4istUzd6qT16uz6Vk8ipIaw=; b=sLnYzexb9Ir6HxbsDhXGZtlatYx7G1tLYMEhAeillrfAmX3s/oC2BnnpONd85YfcZ8 1WknvNphljNuDcx4dkLBW/we8XOZB7/QKwXBhceya/nAID2PW4MY62AShhgYcmVKcu9H Q3GUZQWT6hsYjP2Z1lXGOpWTFOjkNjgyj9fn71HY2CqtlFNNXsopMMPf7KURYIYrSfAp ylZXP7ajkzfj6GZ+La0Ln5n7kzDZK2fC8QlC22EeRZY/FfVWmZuqhM00/nsfYz2KMEHE iQ2qbeo3PWcqkNTYDSXQyYo/rAbaOycnv6QlS5OuvMBnUxPyOTXbo95dbcGafAa5G5Jw tgvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=kfMMTTByVbwzjM896dND4istUzd6qT16uz6Vk8ipIaw=; b=HBZNedO7Aa92HuX/cYm4q3prXw5Qn2uj1DKSYTG9ktBNyDTUGQdU2NtBnhWkPi/Lx5 fCWMHus7DB4MZlOVi/5TdXqPcrufhVvNtFzmgZoqMlAeRDi3GSaMw+VuucHsp273pzNV bcWAfY/NtmnEzGLsz7N98LJbs3M1CNd8Glvnlp/lISOyFRbZWRB7o6nsOsBUXIQ/xqde ZxkrSfGvwNRqrdSmHF1q9D1hiaSoeLnebNI0mcLE7rpWBWl5+i2xUGaTfDekVZ9qHPaX +S+X/JRR6uKfexM1w7+0aPZu3GRBkChW9Hly8vuyCDNP7KobFoHC7vQKI3ryXkuFo6jP tz/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532be41y6MLeZX0iMPp4hkNZzqfqrJHZcvcrlgts5P18G+Jd0mRu YxYbLuqoc7SRImHJs1TadSRNY8Ld9i03B2mp2uf7N9JVU9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmNOnut9MuPeTkVjdzq4aohDRFNNVcMbuFu3htlTLIgat1sMbmoWGWUM9QSQpwfq/56jVmXzqQyhS8CFYyNZI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4203:: with SMTP id n3mr2291437wrq.132.1622297338252; Sat, 29 May 2021 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87y2c1dym9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <875yz2c0r0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87fsy6n8d2.fsf@gmail.com> <87y2byaim4.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877djin4qg.fsf@gmail.com> <87eedqahd6.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kemn3qt.fsf@gmail.com> <87y2by8x4p.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 10:08:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Initial implementation of `csl' citation processor To: org-mode-email Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42b; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1622297378; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=kfMMTTByVbwzjM896dND4istUzd6qT16uz6Vk8ipIaw=; b=hvG02abOAGV8qjxaWWwbxGVZr2AuFf5iSYpzMDxS+63w/IRsgi6Jz3WVgk5/DOb979ndi5 7s5DHDvWpohbacZdxYQov3rlEMgP+4ZObSGXtqZqcXNr8HQfFEQ2zmTo4oDg4PlHSUxuye LZHA7s079B7EN8vnkphgY6gzfAAAF1FiExea2x/+/RkFMyck0SJdfyBbq+4ZIV2Vh616wu flGAQE2+G2oEa/zqF3/H/hpRNeP9O5Leo5pYvZGroAGG7QZTz2cmuOER0VhtFv53cD4L2e 9CYm1eUlQBYAiAq+p59vyAeHIaRqu4t/IsWb4oQP8v3sF3jS3XXDDIWoNt7hCA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1622297378; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kcy71eBjqxX6q6kSbeRSXYL3vN6e8MD/2uZqMFRTDl6bkDrlI4TN+gbSeBBqJOoYit8rI3 7C07rtlWYmK+djGWgawDYt/MCPymv0PalLS3U1k1hXuQloW+lXhUUnOW8XorbWGIAJcbf8 UCbAfw229coXJYN31oxtts8ZBfT1dUVMDs6QUQKmftOKX0SkpnYGXOlvjVvM5tDK2KJIGL WMItrkZ94Ohm4IqcVRDqeRY7uoQIXdrk2mmMsAl3pLNNoIwhjEeuei3YnDYW8DMZcwi/Gz IqZ83TuhbmQ5DwMGNSsbT3MeD2xy1uhB4vXjqby64IwhCaPRFDif83GhMqKY/g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sLnYzexb; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sLnYzexb; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 11F5A1B738 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: xICjbXVDjnuU On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 3:51 AM Stefan Nobis wrote: > > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > > > By default, no export processor is selected. All citations are > > removed from output, and print_bibliography keywords, ignored. > > As I'm coming from LaTeX and have been bitten more than once by > missing citations in the output (which is solved far better today by > biblatex), I would say this is not a very good default. > > Citations should never be removed (or only with quite some effort). If > you publish a text where citations have been removed by accident, > that's asking for much trouble. > > Therefore I would suggest to set some sensible default that at least > does not remove citations. For example a simple ASCII export with > number or author-year style could be the default citation export for > all back-ends. For quite some users (e.g. non-academic, internal > white-papers etc.) this may be also a "good enough" solution, so they > get easy citation support OOTB. > > Everyone else would choose some more sophisticated back-end. > > > It could be possible to change `org-cite-export-processor' so it > > becomes an alist where you can associate back-ends to processors. > > But I can't see how to transpose it nicely to cite_export keyword. > > What about "cite_export" for a single/default export engine and > "cite_export_" (with "" something like "html", > "latex", "md", etc.) for overriding the citation exporter for the > given back-end, e.g. > > cite_export ascii > cite_export_latex biblatex chicago > cite_export_html csl "some style" > > (I forgot about the correct syntax for cite_export, so just a really > rough sketch to illustrate the idea). > > Would that be feasible? This is similar to what Andras was suggesting, though his suggestion is even simpler, because it would only have one for latex; so just default and latex. I think that's all we need. > > I'm not convinced this would be an improvement either. For example, > > you may want to use two different processors with the same back-end. > > I'm not sure if this is true for many back-ends. Currently, I would > assume that this is only the case for the LaTeX back-end (e.g. > preparing a paper for different journals with different citations > requirements). But in this case LaTeX has already quite some tools > that could be utilized. All the different kinds of citation commands > are there to be able to easily switch styles for the whole document > (within a single back-end). To review, for people that may not be that familiar with CSL, in particular. LaTeX does all that, with the major limitation that it doesn't do HTML, docx, rtf, etc. CSL with citeproc-el does LaTeX (completely bypassing bibtex/biblatex), and plain text and HTML, and implementations like pandoc, also do docs, rtf, etc. So even LaTeX users would likely still want to have oc-csl as their default processor, for when they want to export to HTML or plain text. Some, or even many, LaTeX users would prefer to use oc-natib or oc-biblatex for primary latex export though. I'm not convinced it's necessary or useful to separately configure for plain text vs HTML. Bruce