From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id MOy/Cg9MqmMj1gAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 02:36:15 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id OGHVCQ9MqmNrOQEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 02:36:15 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7C94943A for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 02:36:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9ysN-00036o-Jx; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 20:35:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9ysL-00036f-Ht for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 20:35:29 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9ysJ-0007w6-Jt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 20:35:29 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id z7so6831649ljq.12 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 17:35:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YLl2jrFUd1TwyvCVhrbvlK7l0LEi3bqgaC9tL70nhw0=; b=aegR9Dw5eIG6Tqnuu6TEfdlo7QZr/VuQw6379SefpiZdXvV98x3gBWqFo87hzdiJsC ktaZa7p5Lkn1tR16ecVZrOCRSCjsUhmO+ynY4c4cwMNGE06qA7Hkx+vaLC+SIQ0PaILe JOMYvwuM4o87EUB68n9BlOJVVJlmRnJD8TZV4b1GWpkc03zjoOBgcNiwms4X3fM7p78r Xe6IkiQN49JHCe0rioo61na86yE+Mgy00XoEt33/C+SgXeV8CnKzEF7zNBq0Ys4beI7r TatVKZJVc3E7HCEFHaEdXvymVLWt23/NFZYCqnACU8B5iFKQGwZwNhfOjyEd78BEVfL/ GHZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=YLl2jrFUd1TwyvCVhrbvlK7l0LEi3bqgaC9tL70nhw0=; b=ir63VlI0nRnZtQTAb+9YrMehmqBbQ0Hu1YMObv6UvPtezYfp067HdKb3O2nOLpVrlj 7pyn0ab0Lbrx0O7DoOt/KGSWDlERGvgblt1um2AC3C5aJ6QVjpfX4+iSorPMhfB0VL33 W/cvTUmuj+vgYmu1GxOe0r9mH++kWaO5jTGuGpcNp965lkp0NbAbNh1bxQZv1gVvgqWd HY3vBdsQYy+merVhMiGKAifbFqWIxfEqVPlIPs7YzUscnRuJDo1dmNA7FRFzNsCk8yef wEW+ZAF5nx+dgcByreI6NqT5SQ3EOMysnprQFKSuivP3gdPQT22XsiNkiSmpQAcazCuO /h9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krB7oEB3+bZ7hjN2mSvqenAF7iPRK1EQbDL0LBQ6p9lsUyErbKX Ba2OG8D0nyoDUqQfQcfjfmss5FwaISKqvow6fu4HTU9i X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXv5+u/7z0sIdFQkvL+/oiX1ceIjgpKkBQGfJMnItW4IrB/pJJXXolC2PCJ4Ejbs1fzLGE+WY8C7BEBlEChM2Ts= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8e68:0:b0:27f:bf59:2a45 with SMTP id t8-20020a2e8e68000000b0027fbf592a45mr187275ljk.22.1672104924739; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 17:35:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Peter Mao Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 17:35:12 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: missing from the manual - move commands To: Max Nikulin Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000011236605f0c54422" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22b; envelope-from=peter.mao@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1672104975; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=YLl2jrFUd1TwyvCVhrbvlK7l0LEi3bqgaC9tL70nhw0=; b=sNACETLlYHJ1XWPBfsHYikRlM8eC/g5vZ2lDle90ZNKsQIvVdmVc7UNlGoFkuD5PflASxS OCJADucvyRffMBk0vmCJT3N3M6fvVdt+kzlrLDpeLeu1FJtlnQ+AIWre3jC6SV6f3W6qa7 NHrNOOqb//5dvIwljHYgoeKCUXkfIOySLZHsyVr2l7LqKRPOHnQF48atM9oLkJ18FSo92s Stg3HHbszJE5MV2cXxXJYYZ80zQnNG5alUBweeb6iszyneelhnAjrBgDwefbEYdKaUWfe2 1WW715eock8BINd2W56df12tyGsdzvcLcCvB4b7sDu4Rq5sutJ9NRoo2Z4aCMQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=aegR9Dw5; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1672104975; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fYtfZAjMLL/V5XZVrh/gObl1qa7mQ/YiFzoqBrLpHFffd9iCxeSdC2hRRiQgtX/AK92HcS xbD3TgfBtbJfqp+tYsM9Hke9IYzE5bF/F6/U/bH/cKvzTiAgkfdhctlKHJHP39DBmejD/B 706U4vidJiTOj/E2F/yRz7tl+0xBGqYh/m5rOSoPA7f0tabuWg/Qhxdhgtwo+GkdX76Ux6 /0tdFI4ezoTEhgKyBI2qWu7c69XwSyHabkEirOZnqwZKbSUzFQhscsI9RthDbxsOV4dYo9 pEhSDLZvW86qjrs5epM0ZqnQXNSXJi3xdGPgl9/iwgBmcnrqYXs8tgfQFkiSGA== X-Spam-Score: -4.60 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B7C94943A Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=aegR9Dw5; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.60 X-TUID: ktZgkqejfi+S --00000000000011236605f0c54422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 7:03 AM Max Nikulin wrote: > On 24/12/2022 09:43, Peter Mao wrote: > > The following commands are missing from the manual! > > > > org-forward-element > > org-backward-element > > I think, the manual was written with assumption that Emacs users are > familiar with C-up, M-{, C-down, M-} keystrokes. > Not everyone uses all of the motion commands. I've been using emacs since v18, and forward-paragraph and backward-paragraph have never been part of my repertoire. In addition, M-right and M-left, which I have used a lot outside of org, for decades, behave differently in org, so the existence of motion commands that are common in emacs (outside of org) do not guarantee an equivalent inside of org. BTW, I think M-f and M-b are better anyways, but decades of muscle memory die hard. Peter --00000000000011236605f0c54422 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 7:03 AM Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24/12= /2022 09:43, Peter Mao wrote:
> The following commands are missing from the manual!
>
> org-forward-element
> org-backward-element

I think, the manual was written with assumption that Emacs users are
familiar with C-up, M-{, C-down, M-} keystrokes.
Not e= veryone uses all of the motion commands.=C2=A0 I've been using emacs si= nce v18, and forward-paragraph and backward-paragraph have never been part = of my repertoire.

In addition, M-right and M-left,= which I have used a lot outside of org, for decades, behave differently in= org, so the existence of motion commands that are common in emacs (outside= of org) do not guarantee an equivalent inside of org.=C2=A0 BTW, I think M= -f and M-b are better anyways, but decades of muscle memory die hard.
=

Peter
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