From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id YPBjGZCSumKO8AAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:33:04 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id GCMfGZCSumIC0wAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:33:04 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82E2DB95D for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:33:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41314 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o63qO-0003aR-SP for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 01:33:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42376) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o639K-0007K1-KG for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 00:48:30 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]:46664) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o639I-0007cQ-UU for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 00:48:30 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id o23so13399748ljg.13 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 21:48:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Aue/8BRVfNdoaW+ikhvhVAxJnLBbODlOyTpfkfJbs/w=; b=CH3MEuF9RysQTo8g8Zrq+zTx9YvgMrdcKTLcrdqL1U5JVevIiPuQmEKqzu6R7aTWo4 uQphvIMJr3vkYJxmQugs8uJs6pSM6lmUcovLRFnOEzmVjsb8GJ4sw+rm03VqEThV+09k 1QH86rwhojJTIvla8ZWPYJIRaGA6ZP9TcwCc3uNQLCz8bbSlP2+TbcruEMhqCNHUcy6W DK0YHWoNA3hb5r3q7ZJeflSCPtUhazkgS9CXcjzNsAYcMW0i9UzhmjUlU9uoV/Nc4Pib mfJK9H5aWrklsvY9taDNb+SR+wfiLjMqt6D3v0l77WX22L6n9y4z5hYU5MzLq8TEph8f TDKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Aue/8BRVfNdoaW+ikhvhVAxJnLBbODlOyTpfkfJbs/w=; b=5NvsBi9EgCxF7hlnC82ZqltlYsq0ZNSLOd7vH+JFYrAdB2HhmJpQv3uLmg70ZzyM0q ZVIs5JqTR+vZ/AepiAnosMAuffO2T1+DgMKvI2UN79QAAeZ/vk7IZhasKCFshgrH+NN4 bj4quH6NZWwZhhxZyXPWo24UZDFnGnYZ1IH4TIGJRax98haVseYgJkxx1RYMyK8SyCOn V8c/crVHYzOjBZXhntRNY41IE7Vp8bt5Nk0jXLsAdMdA+vKI0wRaVDGFEvSNJwTLrk6q uTXHolmV80MvvBhMS7uOUisiVKLFp3PHUFlmSL2hxAc0CQ0vYqBJju7zQkY+gjMPZyP1 FkYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+H0GKCrU0xuA3W8qVSKGBRw7SStyTpGdtG95E2sluh8GRg+x0m yT1LH04IsyvEwEZ8Bq+di/9vX4Piz38BNpLqlHo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1syjMmrerT1X6cShh2iiKxnxJB9PgK/VjTblCVczbZiKnptpl+zSZu8FEl9BEZf6i0MrKbBX9jWTsdKIE9nrLQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1056:b0:25b:bfa4:2c0 with SMTP id x22-20020a05651c105600b0025bbfa402c0mr4720940ljm.225.1656391707128; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 21:48:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Eduardo Ochs Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 01:48:15 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Org, Hyperbole, and eev To: Robert Weiner Cc: Org Mode Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22d; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656394383; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Aue/8BRVfNdoaW+ikhvhVAxJnLBbODlOyTpfkfJbs/w=; b=Ae4vVBd25YYUbJ1y3CqNUNPDvDGzBdeI94ztMDAUWDY1gOgtctmlzhGB8ceEOESl9SiclS T/bqPkw6Z8qWiAttRW8TxoGB28bw8FHFoNYDWdXQyncYFvscIk1rW/LLW4iXdnEnMHMntP nufSDLSeKHDg3/nyJbkdbBdkB8YuRqK+UVZxy7m5EHJJ77QsxsSW9eWqafHHFUjAiHK5Ub 8dVo0i2NEfuva+47/7O9fuk9yqSvgDmEQVJQYZHxXoDfuAxIFH+zFu3//alc4IQZjGZWos j3laAuWN7+By2UrB8DH+7Tt+jxqBINm/x4sYMGdmaYLI3wnEgZILHECeCkFWwQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656394383; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=DN9bfqSpeB8cvvzZnWoouyEcj0XaKdNimZxNZzgZIaQ98K/9jjtTpla91H1cN2EDa22qUK j9eIPp3V16+/gYphejjzSaCV6zgoGP7cuUB9EPUcXyCEulrqoEGkNDMwESVInFIuIKr/yg vwGqSVdOiHqBe+5OtxeNxOR4dhjf1HteD+PsdN9Nse0sNRDyEfWs51YPBWHIVYNPuNJJPZ nb1EGNAYmv3mgJzJ3XF67vX1A7lhOBG/EdYROc5/eOiyvqJjONFEBAh2hrXgjlhuQajptL E1+0ULN3fAVXwqK0UvHzIF6HvgENHx3PpAb46VrSHQTF4pSKZcYeXspF7WvYbw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CH3MEuF9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.55 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CH3MEuF9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 82E2DB95D X-Spam-Score: -8.55 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: zqYMhdBSIPE+ On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 at 21:50, Robert Weiner wrote: > > So here is a simple implementation that is not unlike your own > though the functions are a bit simpler and more clearly documented > _without a listing of every possible test case type_ and requires > neither Hyperbole nor Org until you want to activate things as > buttons: Hi Robert, I think that the part in "_..._"s above deserves a detailed answer. I started using GNU/Linux in the mid-90s. Before that my favorite languages were Icon and Forth. In Forth I could do AMAZING things in less than 50 lines of code, but my programs would usually become confusing and unmanageable when they grew bigger than that. There is a famous book by Fred Brooks called "The Mythical Man-Month", and one of its chapters is called "Plan to Throw One Away": https://wiki.c2.com/?PlanToThrowOneAway I took that slogan seriously. Most of the time when I realized that something that I was doing by hand could be automated I would write a first attempt to automate it - _as a prototype_, that I regarded partly a program and partly as a way to help me think how that task could be structured, and that would probably be "thrown away" if I needed a cleaner solution later. In Forth it was very easy to implement both strange interfaces and little languages, in this sense: https://wiki.c2.com/?LittleLanguage In Emacs less so, but I could still do lots of funny things using eval-last-sexp to use sexps as buttons. When we are writing throwaway code "planning to throw one away" then using tests in comments is a very good way to document the code. And when I rewrite my prototypes I usually prefer to document them using text ***AND*** executable examples rather than just text. One of the effects of using this style is that the users of eev see that they can use that style in their notes too - and with that their notes become much closer to being "executable notes", in this sense, http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-here-links-intro.html than they would be if they believed that they had to write the docs of their functions as just text. You are sort of saying that having tests in comments is bad style. Well, it's not. =/ [[]], Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/#eev