From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. " References: <87wowoh1m9.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <871sevime2.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87h8nm7zhy.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000007463c056b827179" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43195) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fFBnP-0004lB-OL for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2018 01:01:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fFBnL-0002bg-HI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2018 01:01:15 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f48.google.com ([74.125.82.48]:38032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fFBnL-0002bH-9v for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2018 01:01:11 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m198-v6so10025376wmg.3 for ; Sat, 05 May 2018 22:01:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87h8nm7zhy.fsf@gmx.us> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Rasmus Cc: org-mode list --00000000000007463c056b827179 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 8:02 PM Rasmus wrote: > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > > > Hello, > > > > Steve Downey writes: > > > >> Asking users to accept any breakage in the tool they use to get work > done > >> is a lot. Changes in UI in emacs are opt-in. > >> > >> Even if the change is the right thing to do. > > > > I think some of you (basically, anyone thinking we should enable " > TAB" by default ;)) are missing the point. > > > > > > The first important thing to understand is that, even if we enable > > `org-tempo' by default, next Org release /will break/ for some of us. > > > > - It will break because `org-tempo' is only 99% backward-compatible. S= o > > anyone having customizing templates is bound to change them. > > > > - It will break because there are 9 other incompatible changes between > > 9.1 and 9.2. > > > > So, asking to load `org-tempo' by default just to avoid breaking users > > set-up is a wrong argument. It will only "protect" those among us that > > use " > incompatible changes. IOW, updating Org from 9.1 to 9.2 will not be > > smooth for everyone. No matter what `org-tempo' becomes. > > Nicolas, I have been wondering about something, reading all these posts, > irrespective of whether tempo is loaded by default or not (I don=E2=80=99= t care). > > Do you think org-tempo should try to detect "old" versions of > org-structure-template-alist and give a better error if it sees one? I > don=E2=80=99t know what the "best practice" is this case... > Yes, it absolutely should. Carsten > > Thanks, > Rasmus > > -- > When in doubt, do it! > > > --00000000000007463c056b827179 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat= , May 5, 2018 at 8:02 PM Rasmus <rasmus= @gmx.us> wrote:
Nicolas Goaz= iou <mail@ni= colasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Steve Downey <sdowney@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Asking users to accept any breakage in the tool they use to get wo= rk done
>> is a lot. Changes in UI in emacs are opt-in.
>>
>> Even if the change is the right thing to do.
>
> I think some of you (basically, anyone thinking we should enable "= ;<s
> TAB" by default ;)) are missing the point.
>
>
> The first important thing to understand is that, even if we enable
> `org-tempo' by default, next Org release /will break/ for some of = us.
>
> - It will break because `org-tempo' is only 99% backward-compatibl= e.=C2=A0 So
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0anyone having customizing templates is bound to change the= m.
>
> - It will break because there are 9 other incompatible changes between=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A09.1 and 9.2.
>
> So, asking to load `org-tempo' by default just to avoid breaking u= sers
> set-up is a wrong argument. It will only "protect" those amo= ng us that
> use "<s TAB" but didn't customize /and/ are not affec= ted by the other
> incompatible changes. IOW, updating Org from 9.1 to 9.2 will not be > smooth for everyone. No matter what `org-tempo' becomes.

Nicolas, I have been wondering about something, reading all these posts, irrespective of whether tempo is loaded by default or not (I don=E2=80=99t = care).

Do you think org-tempo should try to detect "old" versions of
org-structure-template-alist and give a better error if it sees one?=C2=A0 = I
don=E2=80=99t know what the "best practice" is this case...

Yes, it absolutely should.

Carsten
=C2=A0

Thanks,
Rasmus

--
When in doubt, do it!


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