From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Joseph Vidal-Rosset Subject: Re: Org Tutorials need more structure Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 09:22:02 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c37ba2ca8f1204e76c7626 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56129) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPorC-0001AN-N4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2013 03:22:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPor9-00044L-Gx for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2013 03:22:26 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]:35115) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPor9-000441-5I for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2013 03:22:23 -0400 Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id hj3so1766847wib.1 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2013 00:22:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Carsten Dominik Cc: emacs-orgmode list --001a11c37ba2ca8f1204e76c7626 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Dominik, hi everyone, Thank you for org-mode and thanks to all who contribute to this project. I am a newby to org-mode , I am an emacs user for LaTeX, mainly, and I would be happy to use more and more emacs, so org-mode seems very attractive. I imagine that writing a tutorial is a big work and I hope that I will not offend people who have taken this time. But I must say that the org-mode manual and the tutorials that I have tried to read are not enough progressive for beginners and do not take care of difference between interests of people. Example: I am presently mainly interested to see if it is possible to use gnus to write a scientific letter with all conveniences of texlive. Of course I can open a tex file with letter class and send to my colleague a pdf file. But it would be more convenient to write an email and using conversions to html and png images to send to him directly this email. I guess it is possilbe to do it with gnus. But the documentation is esoteric: I hear about links, but how it works concretly with example understanble by a newby ... mystery. It is therefore frustrating and quickly discouraging. So, in my opinion, a good tutorial is divided into precise tasks and speaks like that: "You need to do that? So, follow me , from step to step, I will going to show you how I succeed to do what you want to do, and by imitation, you will also succeed ! " A good tutorial avoids to suppose that the reader is already an expert. In a word, too much tutorial in org-mode lack of pedagogical efforts. Sorry to be speak so frankly, but I hope it will help. Waiting your help with gnus - latex and conversion in html , etc. etc. All the best Jo. 2013/9/28 Carsten Dominik > Hi everyone, > > today I looked at our tutorial page at > > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.html > > and came away with the feeling that that this page has become > somewhat useless for people who are really new to Org. I think > the page should start with a section of true recommendations > for beginners, a path we tell every new users to take in order to > learn about Org mode. > > Can we have a discussion here on how this path should look like? > When you came to Org-mode as a newby, what were the three resources > that really made an impression on by being accessible and > providing feel and promise for digging deeper? > > - Carsten > --001a11c37ba2ca8f1204e76c7626 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dominik, hi everyone,

Thank you for = org-mode and thanks to all who contribute to this project.=C2=A0
=
I am a newby to org-mode , I am an emacs user for LaTeX, mai= nly, and I would be happy to use more and more emacs, so org-mode seems ver= y attractive.=C2=A0

I imagine that writing a tutorial is a big work and I h= ope that I will not offend people who have taken this time. But I must say = that the org-mode manual and the tutorials that I have tried to read are no= t enough progressive for beginners and do not take care of difference betwe= en interests of people.=C2=A0

Example: I am presently mainly interested to see if it = is possible to use gnus to write a scientific letter with all conveniences = of texlive. Of course I can open a tex file with letter class and send to m= y colleague a pdf file. But it would be more convenient to write an email a= nd using conversions to html and png images to send to him directly this em= ail. I guess it is possilbe to do it with gnus. But the documentation is es= oteric: I hear about links, but how it works concretly with example underst= anble by a newby ... =C2=A0mystery. It is therefore frustrating and quickly= discouraging.=C2=A0

So, in my opinion, a good tutorial is divided into prec= ise tasks and speaks like that:=C2=A0
"You need to do that? = =C2=A0So, follow me , from step to step, I will going to show you how I suc= ceed to do what you want to do, and by imitation, you will also succeed ! &= quot; =C2=A0A good tutorial avoids to suppose that the reader is already an= expert.=C2=A0

In a word, too much tutorial in org-mode lack of pedago= gical efforts.

Sorry to be speak so frankly, but I= hope it will help.=C2=A0

Waiting your help with g= nus - latex and conversion in html , etc. etc.=C2=A0

All the best

Jo. =C2=A0


2013/9/= 28 Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
Hi everyone,

today I looked at our tutorial page at

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.html

and came away with the feeling that that this page has become
somewhat useless for people who are really new to Org. =C2=A0I think
the page should start with a section of true recommendations
for beginners, a path we tell every new users to take in order to
learn about Org mode.

Can we have a discussion here on how this path should look like?
When you came to Org-mode as a newby, what were the three resources
that really made an impression on by being accessible and
providing feel and promise for digging deeper?

- Carsten

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