From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id ACd3NFFKgWA4JQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:05:05 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id uMcOMFFKgWCUFQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:05:05 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F895C00F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:05:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59308 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZWCl-0004WO-VZ for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 06:05:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47144) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZW8Q-0002KP-Hv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 06:00:34 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f51.google.com ([209.85.218.51]:45899) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZW8M-0002dl-4c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 06:00:32 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f51.google.com with SMTP id sd23so59235597ejb.12 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 03:00:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=s7r48BS9N9gffLqn0KsOVMmvwYgfOMvaW8fG+dqziSw=; b=APJhI1hSM3i/362DfpKrqhqPX+rESCjj94Ps/tsZAa2bQCkFhlGaINMAerk9oGfBTK cXy1CKJYut8b8IR8yb0Y7zmBMfxAvCVrFC/j3DI+V+Zx5BhpkAmieS+Ew/nX4OaqZe7x XSK1Ai6/lFkvKpTXHpWZq/WcVS4Wkbc5MbFYWdC+rTX8neEnaJ1fablTv9j6te83McYm 3cBRTkxxoZlyAbJ9NLjyI1u92iUrutz7oFjaFk+G4mhocxG8rT2Ok8LooMICJO7WyDNR LH9k28iYu8CVQFG7U/e9rMhF1FVuYJllPWjyqlZ28nRpvQ0/YMeLn9b6pE9rxEtXu7Nl OvyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53223hwq8PdB4H+Kgw4vnIKgFUBRn89rL5+k/GyNrSkwTff+QSiX XyCt+aatfzVn0/dT/T5OjiSsb7FIdXXF3LRGhYM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwRswZUI+myPhagkJpOAXfmjgP1T3qpEtQ0us0KkHw23eKYwfHjGPfiPqw/LJZtKW3D8Fn5omHeNQa5WFCzAzQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:205c:: with SMTP id pg28mr2548406ejb.185.1619085628283; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 03:00:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> <87eef4hs9o.fsf@gmail.com> <467d556f-f0fa-018f-99c6-54fb748ab451@gmx.at> <1c557c0e35e04440ba2dadfe57e5b590@VI1PR0102MB3327.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> <878s5bojie.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <878s5bifrf.fsf@gmail.com> <87eef3f5qs.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87eef3f5qs.fsf@gmail.com> From: ian martins Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 06:00:16 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Concerns about community contributor support To: Tim Cross Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bc1e4005c08cbfd2" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.218.51; envelope-from=ianxm1@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-f51.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org-Mode mailing list Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619085905; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=s7r48BS9N9gffLqn0KsOVMmvwYgfOMvaW8fG+dqziSw=; b=HWJLgU6wpA8VTxZ2bnNCHj84SoAKmkYJz9mSD41yO92x70jIdlnC2/pgjBlX5VYnSORnF0 5gWNczd9Z7esD9MTb9PplRbowiIwTdJd7CN0Od0atMthAeYrsQ8q2UMuQr7y2CO+fMCK6n pj5NZdqATHZu04yLw57UnsLjd4Nzq8FZD5LKikoprTFmkr+qPbaU6SnaoECIoOIqWKwodS 6UzXufGRWvqQ8oADOfzmROib/hgrN74fPu1n0HKiGJ5Od8W7/HgNBb+X85w/EBNKInEYDB qIpl0JtSr5HFQ8sMqppqNrIyPWVzf67T0+2aEHPPqHF0kOCEb3MTMdaFOie8lQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619085905; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=R8ZAIh4zW2aJJpFS/sskgtvzeCa2fBdUgWRWF7gypDYT4rTdigdr7sVuyMFzdymy6R/Tdx Dqe1N21yqMKXySj1/5+SFo2qvFRIuyOBzOxvDazpSheOyq7ID4mJm7xMO6pWpWb1t8WWEY uTv8GbPqua6hO6b7JTF5xscUHbME6yDQQQQyWdfNe2i+qSJYxHCvrsnToHsOgsFWLiEo+o IVTivM5OYiOzyG5nGcYnC9b/vOTPMEK8onl4InVpLKDEksv0jlD0Mn4OrqtePMVpTv5lGX CcB9XKsGG1JQJ4gwm34L1F06nSSC2PHpQ1KJtkiRiLVzDP1863zG5cHNYOD3pA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.34 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=jhu.edu (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0F895C00F X-Spam-Score: -2.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: y3MkR6Ig2o90 --000000000000bc1e4005c08cbfd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:49 PM Tim Cross wrote: > > ian martins writes: > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross wrote: > > > > Responding to essentially just flag you have seen the patch message > > really only adds noise and may even 'drown out' those responses which > > add real 'value' to any discussion. I also doubt that asking people to > > do this would actually result in any actual change of behaviour by > > subscribers. > > > > Timothy said there were 25 patches without response and the list goes > back six months, so we're only talking about 50 emails per year. > > That assumes there is a single 'owner' who accepts the responsibility to > respond to every patch submitted. > Why does it? If some individual notices that some patch was submitted but hasn't gotten a response, that person can send a "thanks for submitting. probably maintainers don't use that feature." And someone else could check Woof every three or six months, if so inclined. It doesn't have to be anybody's job, and it doesn't have to be limited to some predesignated group. Having someone respond to the author of a patch and provide some > meaningful feedback would be great, but I don't see how that can happen > in a project which is already stretched and with limited resources. > There has already been multiple messages requesting additional help and > for volunteers willing to put in the time needed to maintain parts of > org mode. Adding to that workload isn't going to help. > I don't see how this adds to the workload in a significant way, but also couldn't this be the solution to that problem? Instead of ignoring potential future contributors we could encourage and welcome them. Maybe we don't have to be constrained by our current limit on resources. > To some extent, if someone submits a > patch and hears nothing, either they have failed to clearly explain what > the patch does (and therefore did not tweak any interest) or it is a > patch to introduce functionality which is of low interest to community > participants. > But if they hear nothing, how are they to know which was the problem? And if it was their first contact, how should they know the problem is one of the things you listed instead of any number of reasons one can imagine that no one is talking to them? --000000000000bc1e4005c08cbfd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:49 PM Tim C= ross <theophilusx@gmail.com= > wrote:

ian martins <ianxm@jh= u.edu> writes:

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 Responding to essentially just flag you have seen the patch mess= age
>=C2=A0 really only adds noise and may even 'drown out' those re= sponses which
>=C2=A0 add real 'value' to any discussion. I also doubt that as= king people to
>=C2=A0 do this would actually result in any actual change of behaviour = by
>=C2=A0 subscribers.
>
> Timothy said there were 25 patches without response and the list goes = back six months, so we're only talking about 50 emails per year.

That assumes there is a single 'owner' who accepts the responsibili= ty to
respond to every patch submitted.
=C2=A0
Why= does it? If some individual notices that some patch was submitted but hasn= 't gotten a response, that person can send a "thanks for submittin= g. probably maintainers don't use that feature." And someone else = could check Woof every three or six months, if so inclined. It doesn't = have to be anybody's job, and it doesn't have to be limited to some= predesignated group.

Having someone respond to the author of a patch and provide some
meaningful feedback would be great, but I don't see how that can happen=
in a project which is already stretched and with limited resources.
There has already been multiple messages requesting additional help and
for volunteers willing to put in the time needed to maintain parts of
org mode. Adding to that workload isn't going to help.
=

I don't see how this adds to the workload in a sign= ificant way, but also couldn't this be the solution to that problem? In= stead of ignoring potential future contributors we could encourage and welc= ome them. Maybe we don't have to be constrained by our current limit on= resources.
=C2=A0
To some extent, if someone submits a
patch and hears nothing, either they have failed to clearly explain what the patch does (and therefore did not tweak any interest) or it is a
patch to introduce functionality which is of low interest to community
participants.
=C2=A0
But if they hear nothin= g, how are they to know which was the problem? And if it was their first co= ntact, how should they know the problem is one of the things you listed ins= tead of any number of reasons one can imagine that no one is talking to the= m?

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