>> But I don't think the issue is with package.el per se.

> Maybe it needs fixes elsewhere as well, but it's via package.el that the
> problem is usually exposed.

Yes, but I think that is mainly because that is the most common way people install it. The manual is fairly clear on this - don't install org-mode vai package.el if you have already visited an org file (or loaded org-functionality). Package.el does make it worse as it may install org as a dependency rather than as a result of an explicit request from the user.

>> You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually
>> without package.el.

> Depends how you do it.

True. If you build it using 'make' it is in a separate environment, using batch and avoiding your init.el, so no issues.

It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that issues need to be reported so that they can be logged as bugs and fixed. Unfortunately, this is very difficult as the package.el installation does not fail. Everything appears to have worked fine and even when you then start working with org afterwards, it can appear to all be fine until you try some action, at which point you get an error. This may not happen for hours, days or even in a later session, so the connection between installation and problem is lost.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 04:20, Cook, Malcolm <MEC@stowers.org> wrote:

Hi Stefan,

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a root-cause analysis, but I’ve seen many problems that are resolved by some version of a “clean build” of org. Here are some:

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2012-09/msg01365.html][Installing Org through the new http://orgmode.org ELPA]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00316.html][latest org from Elpa error: Invalid function: org-babel-header-a]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00318.html][Re: [O] wrong type argument listp... org-element-set-contents]]

That's what I got.

BTW: I now use org-plus-contrib in place of org with this mantra:

(add-to-list 'package-archives '("org" . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t)

(use-package org ;org-plus-contrib ; instead of org-mode

:ensure org-plus-contrib ; following http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/org-plus-contrib-and-org-with-require-or-use-package

)

- Cheers

Malcolm

> Here's what I do, at the shell:
>
>
>
> emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\"<http://orgmode.org/elpa/%22>;))
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
> 'org-plus-contrib))"

I can't blame you for using such workarounds, but it would *really* help
if you could report the actual problems encountered (and then use the
workaround until we fix the source of the problem).

Stefan