From: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
To: David Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com>
Cc: Org-mode mailing list <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Bug: org-install must precede customization [7.02trans]
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 23:50:35 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA5F6295-ECC9-4B51-8F36-AEB4F524D9E9@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m21v6p7r5t.wl%dave@boostpro.com>
Hi David,
On Nov 12, 2010, at 11:01 PM, David Abrahams wrote:
>
> Hi Carsten,
>
> I'm sorry to belabor this, but I'm a little confused about what you're
> saying.
that is because I just talked garbage.
Let me try a cleaner version.
If I put an autoload cookie in front of a defun, a stub for this
function will be created in the autoloads file (for Org this is org-
install.el). When this file gets loaded and the corresponding form
evaluated, Emacs knows about this function and it will load the
corresponding file to get the full function whenever the function is
first called.
We had a discussion here some point ago where someone complained that
org-capture-templates was not available for customization before org-
capture.el actually has been loaded. I thought that putting an
autoload cookie in front of a defcustom form would have the desired
effect. I had hoped that org-install.el then would make Emacs aware
of org-capture-templates and load org-capture.el whenever org-capture-
templates first was needed.
However, it does not work like this. In org-install.el, the defcustom
is turned into a defvar, which defines the variable and sets it to nil.
When later the customize forms are evaluated, they see the variable
already defined and assume that the user has set this value on
purpose. So customize does not think it is entitled to overrule the
users action and so does *not* install its saved value. So this
creates a dependence on the load sequence of org-install.el and
custom.el. This is bad and unpredictable. Therefore I clearly prefer
that org-capture-templates is only available when org-capture indeed
has been loaded, and that an error is produced when I try to access
the variable before it is defined.
Moreover, if you use `C-c r C' to customize the variable, it will work
because the function org-capture is correctly autoloaded.
That is why I have decided to remove the autoload cookie.
Better?
- Carsten
>
> At Fri, 12 Nov 2010 22:40:10 -0600,
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2010, at 9:28 PM, David Abrahams wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carsten,
>>>
>>> Is it merely the autoload of org-capture-templates, or is this a
>>> general rule for everything in org-install? I think I'm perfectly
>>> happy to work with the dependency in place as long as it's
>>> documented.
>>
>> I think that this should work, but it clearly does not. So the only
>> clean thing is it to remove it. The proper sequence should be
>> to first load org-install and the do any other configuration.
>
> Are you saying "it clearly does not" based solely on the information I
> gave you, or is there something else? I ask because what you say is
> the "proper sequence" is supported by my experience. When I did
> things in that order, everything worked. When I didn't, I ran into
> this problem. It still seems to me that fundamental problem was
> simply that the ordering requirement wasn't documented... unless
> there's some information I'm missing?
>
> Thanks
>
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>> For most people it wouldn't be an issue since custom-* puts its
>>> custom-set-variables call at the end of the file. I think you
>>> need to
>>> be using something like initsplit to see the problem.
>>>
>>> At Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:29:15 -0600,
>>> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for investigating this.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the autoload has caused more problems than it
>>>> solved - so I have removed the autoload again.
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2010, at 12:45 PM, David Abrahams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember to cover the basics, that is, what you expected to happen
>>>>> and
>>>>> what in fact did happen. You don't know how to make a good
>>>>> report?
>>>>> See
>>>>>
>>>>> http://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback
>>>>>
>>>>> Your bug report will be posted to the Org-mode mailing list.
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> There's an undocumented dependency between org-install and
>>>>> customizations. In particular, if custom-set-variables is
>>>>> called to
>>>>> set
>>>>> org-capture-templates, and then org-install is loaded,
>>>>> org-capture-templates will be reset to nil. I tested this with
>>>>>
>>>>> emacs -Q
>>>>>
>>>>> Emacs : GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-
>>>>> appkit-1038.29)
>>>>> of 2010-05-08 on black.local
>>>>> Package: Org-mode version 7.02trans
>>>>>
>>>>> current state:
>>>>> ==============
>>>>> (setq
>>>>> org-agenda-deadline-leaders '("D: " "D%d: ")
>>>>> org-clock-in-switch-to-state "STARTED"
>>>>> org-agenda-skip-scheduled-if-deadline-is-shown t
>>>>> org-export-latex-after-initial-vars-hook '(org-beamer-after-
>>>>> initial-
>>>>> vars)
>>>>> org-todo-keyword-faces '(("TODO" :foreground "medium blue" :weight
>>>>> bold)
>>>>> ("APPT" :foreground "medium blue" :weight
>>>>> bold)
>>>>> ("NOTE" :foreground "brown" :weight bold)
>>>>> ("STARTED" :foreground "dark orange"
>>>>> :weight bold)
>>>>> ("WAITING" :foreground "red" :weight bold)
>>>>> ("DELEGATED" :foreground "dark violet"
>>>>> :weight bold)
>>>>> ("DEFERRED" :foreground "dark blue" :weight
>>>>> bold)
>>>>> ("SOMEDAY" :foreground "dark blue" :weight
>>>>> bold)
>>>>> ("PROJECT" :height 1.5 :weight bold
>>>>> :foreground "black"))
>>>>> org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-default-hook org-babel-
>>>>> speed-command-hook)
>>>>> org-agenda-custom-commands '(("E" "Errands (next 3 days)" tags
>>>>> "Errand&TODO<>\"DONE\"&TODO<>
>>>>> \"CANCELLED\"&STYLE<>\"habit\"&SCHEDULED<\"<+3d>\""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Errands (next 3 days)")
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("A" "Priority #A tasks" agenda ""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-ndays 1)
>>>>> (org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Today's priority #A tasks: ")
>>>>> (org-agenda-skip-function
>>>>> (quote (org-agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>> (quote notregexp) "\\=.*\\[#A\\]"))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("B" "Priority #A and #B tasks" agenda
>>>>> ""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-ndays 1)
>>>>> (org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Today's priority #A and #B tasks: ")
>>>>> (org-agenda-skip-function
>>>>> (quote (org-agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>> (quote regexp) "\\=.*\\[#C\\]")))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("w" "Waiting/delegated tasks" tags
>>>>> "TODO=\"WAITING\"|TODO=\"DELEGATED\""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Waiting/delegated tasks:")
>>>>> (org-agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>> (quote (todo-state-up priority-down
>>>>> category-up)))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("u" "Unscheduled tasks" tags
>>>>> "TODO<>\"\"&TODO<>\"DONE\"&TODO<>
>>>>> \"CANCELLED\"&TODO<>\"NOTE\"&CATEGORY<>{CEG\\|ABC\\|Bizcard\\|
>>>>> Adagio\
>>>>> \|EVAprint\\|\\<IT\\>}"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Unscheduled tasks: ")
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-function
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> scheduled)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> deadline)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> timestamp)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> regexp)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "\\*
>>>>> \\(DEFERRED \\|SOMEDAY\\)")
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-files
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ("~
>>>>> /Dropbox/todo.txt")
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (todo
>>>>> -state-up priority-down category-up)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("U" "Deferred tasks" tags
>>>>> "TODO=\"DEFERRED\"&CATEGORY<>{CEG\\|
>>>>> ABC
>>>>> \\|Bizcard\\|Adagio\\|EVAprint\\|\\<IT\\>}"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Deferred tasks:")
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("S" "Someday tasks" tags
>>>>> "TODO=\"SOMEDAY\"&CATEGORY<>{CEG\\|
>>>>> ABC\
>>>>> \|Bizcard\\|Adagio\\|EVAprint\\|\\<IT\\>}"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Someday tasks:")
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("G" "Ledger tasks (all)" tags-todo
>>>>> "TODO<>{SOMEDAY}"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-files (quote ("~/src/
>>>>> ledger/plan/TODO")))
>>>>> (org-agenda-overriding-header "Ledger
>>>>> tasks:")
>>>>> (org-agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>> (quote (todo-state-up priority-down
>>>>> category-up)))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("l" "Ledger tasks" tags-todo
>>>>> "TODO<>{SOMEDAY\\|DEFERRED}"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-files (quote ("~/src/
>>>>> ledger/plan/TODO")))
>>>>> (org-agenda-overriding-header "Ledger
>>>>> tasks:")
>>>>> (org-agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>> (quote (todo-state-up priority-down
>>>>> category-up)))
>>>>> (org-agenda-skip-function
>>>>> (quote (org-agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>> (quote regexp) "\\=.*\\[#C\\]")))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("L" "Ledger tasks not in Bugzilla"
>>>>> alltodo ""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-files (quote ("~/src/
>>>>> ledger/plan/TODO")))
>>>>> (org-agenda-overriding-header "Ledger
>>>>> tasks:")
>>>>> (org-agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>> (quote (todo-state-up priority-down
>>>>> category-up)))
>>>>> (org-agenda-skip-function
>>>>> (quote (org-agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>> (quote regexp) "\\(bug:\\)")))
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("r" "Uncategorized items" tags
>>>>> "CATEGORY=\"Inbox\"&LEVEL=2"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Uncategorized items")))
>>>>> ("W" "Unscheduled work tasks" tags
>>>>> "CATEGORY={CEG\\|ABC\\|Bizcard\\|
>>>>> Adagio
>>>>> \\|IT\\|EVAprint}&CATEGORY<>\"Website\"&TODO<>\"DONE\"&TODO<>
>>>>> \"CANCELLED\"&TODO<>\"NOTE\"&TODO<>\"\"&LEVEL>1"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header
>>>>> "Unscheduled work tasks")
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-function
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> scheduled)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> deadline)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (todo
>>>>> -state-up priority-down)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("z" "CEG tasks not in Bugzilla" tags
>>>>> "CATEGORY={CEG\\|ABC\\|Bizcard\\|
>>>>> Adagio
>>>>> \\|IT\\|EVAprint}&CATEGORY<>{Website\\|Admin}&TODO<>\"DONE
>>>>> \"&TODO<>
>>>>> \"CANCELLED\"&TODO<>\"NOTE\"&TODO<>\"\"&LEVEL>1&SCOPE<>\"local\""
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header "CEG
>>>>> tasks not in Bugzilla")
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-function
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> regexp)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "\\(cegbug
>>>>> :\\)")
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> ("Z" "CEG tasks in Bugzilla" tags
>>>>> "CATEGORY={CEG\\|ABC\\|Bizcard\\|
>>>>> Adagio
>>>>> \\|IT\\|EVAprint}&TODO<>\"DONE\"&TODO<>\"CANCELLED\"&TODO<>
>>>>> \"DELEGATED\"&TODO<>\"NOTE\"&LEVEL>1"
>>>>> ((org-agenda-overriding-header "CEG
>>>>> tasks in Bugzilla")
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-function
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-skip-entry-if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>> notregexp)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "cegbug
>>>>> :")
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> (org
>>>>> -agenda-sorting-strategy
>>>>>
>>>>> (quote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (todo
>>>>> -state-up category-down priority-down user-defined-up)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> )
>>>>> org-agenda-files '("~/Dropbox/todo.txt" "~/Dropbox/Projects")
>>>>> org-agenda-include-diary t
>>>>> org-blocker-hook '(org-block-todo-from-children-or-siblings-or-
>>>>> parent)
>>>>> org-agenda-menu-two-column t
>>>>> org-agenda-tags-column -100
>>>>> org-hide-leading-stars t
>>>>> org-clock-into-drawer "LOGBOOK"
>>>>> org-completion-use-ido t
>>>>> org-metaup-hook '(org-babel-load-in-session-maybe)
>>>>> org-footnote-section nil
>>>>> org-agenda-scheduled-leaders '("" "S%d: ")
>>>>> org-archive-save-context-info '(time category itags)
>>>>> org-after-todo-state-change-hook '(org-clock-out-if-current)
>>>>> org-agenda-text-search-extra-files '(agenda-archives)
>>>>> org-archive-location "TODO-archive::"
>>>>> org-agenda-skip-unavailable-files t
>>>>> org-agenda-default-appointment-duration 60
>>>>> org-time-clocksum-use-fractional t
>>>>> org-agenda-sorting-strategy '((agenda habit-down time-up todo-
>>>>> state-
>>>>> up priority-down category-keep)
>>>>> (todo priority-down category-keep)
>>>>> (tags priority-down category-keep)
>>>>> (search category-keep))
>>>>> org-export-blocks-postblock-hook '(org-exp-res/src-name-cleanup)
>>>>> org-agenda-prefix-format '((agenda . " %-11:c%?-12t% s")
>>>>> (timeline
>>>>> . " % s") (todo . " %-11:c")
>>>>> (tags . " %-11:c"))
>>>>> org-habit-preceding-days 42
>>>>> org-export-latex-format-toc-function 'org-export-latex-format-toc-
>>>>> default
>>>>> org-agenda-skip-scheduled-if-done t
>>>>> org-stuck-projects '("+LEVEL=1/-DONE" ("TODO" "STARTED" "NEXT"
>>>>> "NEXTACTION") nil
>>>>> "\\(Appointments\\|Notes\\|Anniversaries\\)")
>>>>> org-clock-in-resume t
>>>>> org-export-preprocess-hook '(org-eval-replace-snippts)
>>>>> org-tab-first-hook '(org-hide-block-toggle-maybe org-src-native-
>>>>> tab-
>>>>> command-maybe
>>>>> org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe)
>>>>> org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer
>>>>> org-src-mode-
>>>>> configure-edit-buffer)
>>>>> org-mac-mail-account "GMail: BoostPro"
>>>>> org-cycle-global-at-bob t
>>>>> org-confirm-shell-link-function nil
>>>>> org-reveal-start-hook '(org-decrypt-entry)
>>>>> org-export-first-hook '(org-beamer-initialize-open-trackers)
>>>>> org-use-tag-inheritance nil
>>>>> org-clock-persist 'history
>>>>> org-todo-keywords '((sequence "TODO" "APPT" "|" "DONE" "NOTE"))
>>>>> org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
>>>>> org-M-RET-may-split-line '((headline) (default . t))
>>>>> org-default-notes-file "~/Dropbox/todo.txt"
>>>>> org-directory "~/Dropbox/Projects"
>>>>> org-tag-alist '((#("LUANN" 0 5 (face nil)) . 110) (#("WORK" 0 4
>>>>> (face nil)) . 119))
>>>>> org-agenda-persistent-filter t
>>>>> org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
>>>>> org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees org-cycle-hide-
>>>>> drawers org-cycle-show-empty-lines
>>>>> org-optimize-window-after-visibility-change)
>>>>> org-export-preprocess-before-normalizing-links-hook '(org-remove-
>>>>> file-link-modifiers)
>>>>> org-use-speed-commands t
>>>>> org-mode-hook '((lambda nil (local-set-key [(control 44)] (quote
>>>>> backward-word)))
>>>>> #[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
>>>>> [org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-show-
>>>>> block-all append local] 5]
>>>>> #[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
>>>>> [org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-babel-
>>>>> show-result-all append local] 5]
>>>>> org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-
>>>>> hashes)
>>>>> org-agenda-menu-show-matcher nil
>>>>> org-clock-out-remove-zero-time-clocks t
>>>>> org-font-lock-hook '(org-eval-handle-snippets)
>>>>> org-agenda-ndays 1
>>>>> org-refile-targets '((org-agenda-files :level . 1) (org-agenda-
>>>>> files :todo . "PROJECT"))
>>>>> org-extend-today-until 2
>>>>> org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook '(org-babel-hash-at-point org-babel-
>>>>> execute-
>>>>> safely-maybe)
>>>>> org-confirm-elisp-link-function nil
>>>>> org-fast-tag-selection-single-key 'expert
>>>>> org-todo-repeat-to-state "TODO"
>>>>> org-clock-modeline-total 'current
>>>>> org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil
>>>>> org-agenda-fontify-priorities t
>>>>> org-export-interblocks '((lob org-babel-exp-lob-one-liners) (src
>>>>> org-
>>>>> babel-exp-inline-src-blocks))
>>>>> org-enforce-todo-dependencies t
>>>>> org-agenda-skip-deadline-if-done t
>>>>> org-reverse-note-order t
>>>>> org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
>>>>> org-export-preprocess-before-selecting-backend-code-hook '(org-
>>>>> beamer-select-beamer-code)
>>>>> org-agenda-cmp-user-defined 'org-cmp-ceg-bugs
>>>>> org-export-preprocess-after-include-files-hook '(org-export-
>>>>> blocks-
>>>>> preprocess)
>>>>> org-tags-column -97
>>>>> org-modules '(org-crypt org-id org-habit org-mac-message org-
>>>>> bookmark org-eval)
>>>>> org-agenda-auto-exclude-function 'org-my-auto-exclude-function
>>>>> org-ellipsis 'org-habit-alert-face
>>>>> org-export-latex-final-hook '(org-beamer-amend-header
>>>>> org-beamer-fix-
>>>>> toc
>>>>> org-beamer-auto-fragile-frames
>>>>> org-beamer-place-default-actions-for-
>>>>> lists)
>>>>> org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
>>>>> org-clock-idle-time 10
>>>>> org-attach-method 'mv
>>>>> org-export-blocks '((src org-babel-exp-src-blocks nil) (comment
>>>>> org-
>>>>> export-blocks-format-comment t)
>>>>> (ditaa org-export-blocks-format-ditaa nil)
>>>>> (dot org-export-blocks-format-dot nil))
>>>>> )
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Abrahams
>>>>> BoostPro Computing
>>>>> http://www.boostpro.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Abrahams
>>> BoostPro Computing
>>> http://www.boostpro.com
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Abrahams
> BoostPro Computing
> http://www.boostpro.com
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-11-13 5:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-11-12 18:45 Bug: org-install must precede customization [7.02trans] David Abrahams
2010-11-12 22:29 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-11-13 3:28 ` David Abrahams
2010-11-13 4:40 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-11-13 5:01 ` David Abrahams
2010-11-13 5:50 ` Carsten Dominik [this message]
2010-11-14 13:28 ` David Abrahams
2010-11-13 5:55 ` Anupam Sengupta
2010-11-13 6:00 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-11-14 13:29 ` David Abrahams
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