From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id EGQ+L/DuZGA/gwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 23:51:44 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id oIwEKfDuZGDwDAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:51:44 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0644725213 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 23:51:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38990 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRikY-0006u0-47 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:51:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38910) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRikB-0006tq-91 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:51:19 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::231]:43886) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRik8-00072t-Sx for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:51:18 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-x231.google.com with SMTP id n8so21437567oie.10 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:51:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=S5UODkSar9b4670144cdXf1cpUS2kcPU5l02ekhDV7w=; b=dIGmFksaBQJnvKBHH929Z3IL+MRWAjwyYsUW7N3RJojyxXqvFEasPsupp3KvuAJ9sM 65GyiXGpHkf+rN8s2B8KV/g26yyFQvPYrYbBpptYgMG7HMlQjxDffuNsMfePKYdTSkOx tNyeIRGLnoB+P+uGDlLf3kwITNzuHp60OH5+oMplfsHyoTdzwRaqoTunRetBwne7PJbu NAFQ3cjMsCyEeipiiAWzYvgqednFtuA+ObsYFgYKtH3AQs/Xqlb/k7t8iBUE35ymSCvN H9rog9MZ70cS0vFpl7riOFF9CpJF+bj/Bi1R4ICkAnHXhj31C5JaO7DJXtyjAbxNIlgt dV6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=S5UODkSar9b4670144cdXf1cpUS2kcPU5l02ekhDV7w=; b=ZyBIE7kr5HNXVv9ghCLHXfmNb9uhR6XygI5Y8hqeYNXfkctGsmKHcyJ+NodsnRyfCc yNYmLNgNGEjAuSRe8TQ/j7qdyTL/c7XywuFRE7QlFeo7cbUj+Qd/cfiCzx87f2ULC70V USI8DA750KhTMtSDdOoZJAmef3LQGY4+qiV++3BQ/4wUZqORWgIEzStf48Xl7ID//6uk IahTQmEJYaosEqbkwIPKB23Jx8v1UUqY3UBkgzgBeFujW2OnQYAX4sJo1e5QoHACSes6 rGREsbT4ur6Csyd7f29QFRv7IUR0PWXixVbaCbcbbXpiO3jWPJIHf9LAJx1d1ojOax6J 7T9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530HxA/8DVenQvwR6qc2ExADjbrTF6XJwoUkqsg5Btn1B/I8MNey GqzY/kfYm+XXz/R1mYeqPlCEeapa83nlfegFWdA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2ZdHP855TiPZqnfFubpotydXfjjTEgtEB+bfwy9WjQ0U4iL6Vs4SZ3zpJAuEZzsvNGJCSutNzblfFbEH6sdE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:1b16:: with SMTP id b22mr3552669oib.153.1617227475303; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:51:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Mauer Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 16:51:04 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Using backticks for the inline code delimeter? To: Diego Zamboni Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002fc36e05bedc1d80" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::231; envelope-from=gmauer@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x231.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: gmauer@gmail.com Cc: emacs-orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617227504; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=S5UODkSar9b4670144cdXf1cpUS2kcPU5l02ekhDV7w=; b=PKYvEsga98n0uczMQ/OU/QazxHW8gBe8Y6OhnZdHYT9cRMud2O70ggzKmNTCv6UZ3b6G1Y MXiCHzvpGw4VDbAx6nB8CuThuC+Xolb0S87poLwMvInt3ZSF3Ivmd8lKLJxPbYhXDnzNwk +N+ONX3YGji4K37VKtNXR8f78UhEiVww1jGWjVK7ff38Vbl8bSIbaUpIyNrw4L5ah3/O92 7+8RCYpiKc7Lbopg5yHQER18SNiu4AVpxZD0lwUtRd5aOHdJME7Zmq6TIqBWtcNEpyY1YE 31Rm0bTOUIuQQUGj1w11MsEuepxiaX6zb9h46QU5WyFieRs2Bvt5tlrOzgt5EQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617227504; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=eIuOVZRYhuTeXdbapssE7MDlehaow248myajqATN9A7BZfcNIBVCEQgmiZFnPV/CSvIEcb 4yRFAjheirKGarAnYthXM0guMZxmxsxTGiqxoB49+I9h54ZKWSiXYKVq6y6KzomI1WHpl1 BF2P/Xd2IROU0IsnvkxzNKAK9WU4u1k22VFaSVYZbdlqusM6Dol9r9mzDo3jxWRJsk1O5O pHe9CvtokRgLsvHgqbN7UKHAYzHYA2Idhk5IoleQnoyGt2xByQj37g6ScMiN+MfV6J5nxm UpdvaLtYZdsZkFYwMPGD9IEBXidlAfyDoZTlgObl02/tRJLPN6QtnGWh28mXXw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dIGmFksa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dIGmFksa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0644725213 X-Spam-Score: -2.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: WwFg6aaNuOvR --0000000000002fc36e05bedc1d80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The point I'm making is that this is already the de-facto thing. People on this email list do it, people in talking in irc and in forums do it. I don't think it has so much to do with markdown documents as it does with Slack, Discord, Teams, even google chat adopting that convention. All our fingers are getting trained to backticks everywhere *except* org documents. As those already have trained us to use this construction, it might be a good idea to just swallow the pill. I don't think there's much of a slippery slope here. Most popular chat programs don't support making headings markdown-style for example, and even if they did I don't see many people attempting to use that. Trying to enumerate syntax that I feel falls squarely in this category I come up with only a few - lists with dashes, org supports that just fine *bold text* with stars, again org already does this `backtick code`, org doesn't handle this and actually uses the tilde as a delimeter which is extra jarring since its a strikethrough in many chat apps That's really it. You could maybe also argue > gt for quotation - that would be be nice as we're used to it from email as well, but I don't see people using it all that much but that's really it as far as common usage right now. Sure that list might grow as different usages become common, but I would hope org is not against evolving in small and reasonable ways as the expectations of users shift. On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 3:31 PM Diego Zamboni wrote: > The approach I've taken is to try and stop using Markdown altogether and > write everything in Org, exporting to Markdown for those destinations that > need it. > > You could even use https://github.com/tecosaur/org-pandoc-import to > automatically convert/reconvert other formats as needed, and > https://github.com/tecosaur/emacs-everywhere to do it even in other > applications. > > It's not perfect - I still have to type Markdown sometimes, but you > can eventually start losing the ingrained backtick habit :) > > --Diego > > > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:49 PM George Mauer wrote: > >> Markdown uses backticks to denote inline code which should get special >> (typically monospace) formatting, org uses the tilde character. >> >> Now I know that org is not markdown, is far more powerful than markdown, >> and is not (mostly) the same use cases as markdown. But this one use case >> *does* overlap. And the backticks thing is becoming so ingrained that not >> only do I reach for it all the time, but I've seen it crop up on this very >> mailing list and even in some README.org documents. >> >> I would like to submit that org consider adopting backticks as an >> alternate way of denoting inline code. >> >> Aside from any official movement, I would like to add this to my own >> files - is there a straightforward way to extend the org parser to do this? >> > --0000000000002fc36e05bedc1d80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The point I'm making is that this is already the de-fa= cto thing. People on this email list do it, people in talking in irc and in= forums do it. I don't think it has so much to do with markdown documen= ts as it does with Slack, Discord, Teams, even google chat adopting that co= nvention. All our fingers are getting trained to backticks everywhere *exce= pt* org documents. As those already have trained us to use this constructio= n, it might be a good idea to just swallow the pill.

I d= on't think there's much of a slippery slope here. Most popular chat= programs don't support making headings markdown-style for example, and= even if they did I don't see many people attempting to use=C2=A0that. =

Trying to enumerate syntax that I feel falls squarely in this categ= ory I come up with only a few

- lists with dashes, org suppor= ts that just fine
*bold text* with stars, again org already does = this
`backtick code`, org doesn't handle this and actually us= es the tilde as a delimeter which is extra jarring since its a strikethroug= h in many chat apps

That's really it. You coul= d maybe also argue
> gt for quotation - that would be be nice as we&#= 39;re used to it from email as well, but I don't see people using it al= l that much

but that's really it as far as com= mon usage right now. Sure that list might grow as different usages become c= ommon, but I would hope org is not against evolving in small and reasonable= ways as the expectations of users shift.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 3:31= PM Diego Zamboni <diego@zzamboni.org> wrote:
The=C2=A0approach I've taken= is to try and stop using Markdown altogether and write everything in Org, = exporting to Markdown for those destinations that need it.

You could even use=C2=A0https://github.com/tecosaur/org-pandoc-im= port to automatically convert/reconvert other formats as needed, and=C2= =A0https://github.com/tecosaur/emacs-everywhere to do it even in other = applications.

It's not perfect - I still have = to type Markdown sometimes, but you can=C2=A0eventually start losing the in= grained backtick habit :)=C2=A0

--Diego
=


On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:49 PM George Mauer <gmauer@gmail.com> wro= te:
Markdown uses backticks to denote inline code which should get sp= ecial (typically monospace) formatting, org uses the tilde character.
=

Now I know that org is not markdown, is far more powerf= ul than markdown, and is not (mostly) the same use cases as markdown. But t= his one use case *does* overlap. And the backticks thing is becoming so ing= rained that not only do I reach for it all the time, but I've seen it c= rop up on this very mailing list and even in some README.org documents.

I would like to submit that org consider adopting bac= kticks as an alternate way of denoting=C2=A0inline code.=C2=A0
Aside from any official movement, I would like to add this to = my own files - is there a straightforward way to extend the org parser to d= o this?
--0000000000002fc36e05bedc1d80--