Re: Org, Hyperbole, and eev

[Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org>]

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Hi Eduardo:

I really think that you are confused in saying that Hyperbole and Org are
hacker-unfriendly.  Yes, they are targeted at users who don't have to
understand the programming, but if you do understand Lisp programming well,
the interactive features are available as Lisp functions in almost all
cases, so you simply have to dive in, find the functions you want and
utilize or change them.

In fact, Hyperbole offers 'action implicit buttons' that utilize
angle-bracket syntax to turn any Lisp function (or hyperbole button type
call or variable reference) into a hyperbutton that runs the function with
arguments or displays the variable, e.g.  <find-file "~/.org/my-org-file.org
">.

With Hyperbole, much of the behavior is factored into class-like libraries
with the 'methods' alphabetized and separated into public and private
groupings.  Now some of this code is complex in order to handle many
contexts and make things simple to the user but that is a matter of you
understanding this complexity if you want to hack on it.

I'm not sure what else you could ask for in packages.

-- rsw

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 11:58 AM Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> this message is slightly off-topic, and a shameless plug...
>
> Eev can do many things that Org and Hyperbole and do, but it makes
> very little sense to people who can play the role of "users" well, in
> the sense of people who can "use" Emacs packages without looking at
> the elisp source and hacking it, i.e.: reading the source of the
> package, inspecting and understanding its data structures, and
> creating sexps that call the package's functions directly...
>
> Eev still has a couple of parts whose data structures are hard to
> inspect. I don't regard these parts as "real" bugs, but I do regard
> them as hugely embarassing - and I have just fixed one of them:
> `find-here-links', that is explained in this section of the main
> tutorial,
>
>   http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html#4.1
>
> and in this other tutorial:
>
>   http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-here-links-intro.html
>
> The way to run `find-here-links' in debug mode is explained here,
>
>   http://angg.twu.net/eev-current/eev-hlinks.el.html
>
> in the second part of the ";;; Commentary:" at the top - look for
> "Debug mode".
>
> As I mentioned in the other thread
>
>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2022-06/msg00524.html
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2022-06/threads.html#00524
>
> and in these pages,
>
>   http://angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html
>   http://angg.twu.net/find-elisp-intro.html
>   http://angg.twu.net/eev-wconfig.html
>   http://angg.twu.net/hyperbole.html
>
> I find Org and Hyperbole difficult mainly because they are
> hacker-unfriendly. It _may be_ that some of the people who said that
> they find Org very hard in this thread
>
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-06/threads.html#00186
>
> would also benefit from a bit more of hacker-friendliness... and so it
> would be great if more ideas could flow between Org, eev, and Hyperbole.
>
>   Cheers and sorry the noise =P,
>     Eduardo Ochs
>     http://angg.twu.net/#eev
>
>

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