From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kM2xLEPiQWNObwEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 22:49:07 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id wAqzLEPiQWPN5wAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 22:49:07 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EC3C47715 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2022 22:49:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42292 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohGkq-0003Db-Gc for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 16:49:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35246) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohGkH-0003DS-W7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 16:48:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38244) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohGkH-0005UU-97 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 16:48:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=To:Subject:Date:From:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version; bh=fPpzeJV6DdzHM/Ei/jb+a/d+W6rPUnOmO0AYWw8iy74=; b=UdQ4UsCUgheT aJJovoMUBhENK3HQ3at2Brt/2aB1g/UYkiVctr3WmZazD06c+YconK94HOZYPnyb8VADDrkmsUfA6 sdh7xpO137Wk7OaDGgezIhBQEJ6MJYVNAQHR69nGr4Cy5yg/7hVewvvOYCU7J6ezcC0PgnmaObDHs nq5jSTj20ebJs5UopiNMCBVdjDajRB9EBdXFYZCGm7bsNSNOjJwO4pX0mZoYGUdH1dGpGYB24zZkh 4PYXpRKXmuaLFO/1wFo20X+CNSaswUZz1zzv5Bhh58Aemo/MJBdrH6Ni/7p5ZNC590wnOJT677gXM f//rm/M4OR7qfa93hzhf+g==; Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com ([209.85.222.49]:41616) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohGkG-0007Kz-Qc for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 16:48:28 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id y20so2764587uao.8 for ; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1eENIeRbKE5pL0sr/yTLhVw3AeQQf0MEz+qB2jLqN/l325xTqj 6xwXANcZh6gllWGParoecgDrl19JVn35gRWjrqs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5wPfKJyFgTZbc+1lGX87si3U8wkLO9tZ1rAeE0HCyz/vSHTikFm3gOjTPNNxKReF9sl+Zuikj6u306caV2woo= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:992:0:b0:3cb:c597:48ff with SMTP id x18-20020ab00992000000b003cbc59748ffmr6159785uag.19.1665262108198; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <878rlw3ws3.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <878rlw3ws3.fsf@gmail.com> From: Robert Weiner Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 16:48:01 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Org and Hyperbole To: Payas Relekar Cc: emacs-org list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006acdde05ea8c0c69" X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rswgnu@gmail.com Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1665262147; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=fPpzeJV6DdzHM/Ei/jb+a/d+W6rPUnOmO0AYWw8iy74=; b=dLhMl508i+ISFQFMucF+0rbabSHzZRTRxlF167KAg7XH4X55pDZoX3+HFo5CprKeaodwJ8 yl/XqXV9CCoNTxJyRxH2rKtlvghrFHgv2YxOM6nE8cHCbq17Me3qSdjqYfOvUW55C8WcpF /sfwc7m/8i8NMjlCVirQ/LsgYhZtAd9Fz/5jcj9fouXHQ67uP/KC+4Zt1z+gWKVcSUlGxe lDQbm67q7uz8Uvogu5+yyyuHhRiSQw4z9srKQ2Vmdn9iTKg+oKlkKnf09lyUZV9O5X8iaa JLoE06kHYTPCZBge+Y0U8GUQl8cOQwMLvsgKgj/qj7e5GzBOAty+eqyMTATDxA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1665262147; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=A7aMF60DdUdxf8OOnAEoTLuIUFJGs7K1+p6CaTWuTIs7HwbL7oBaCbXMthryuzoaz148H1 hQl2HXjBQK5lOyYJEmAxRx2CoXPXwEGllGVZcW0GmIPqiyha+sxuccN2sBM91cx6pjoULa nrKqWGR4GbM/plh0+VWvrMvn0bRLGIcStDjgBl0O+bcmOS1BqYX5ofmaBXYMjHj/+3p4hZ qKb+RPnCm4Rk66hsC/5hPhLt2dr5Mhle9xqpLGPM8NXudMTMV+oqUMdkQ9RLsJO7UHacC3 q7Rs+yVCKyew13PzBl/bUVBwPuXq6LbPKaInJ0Y3d8dIEgbIp+QhqQVukGVQRw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=UdQ4UsCU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.18 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=UdQ4UsCU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4EC3C47715 X-Spam-Score: -5.18 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: t0/ypQrq/9cc --0000000000006acdde05ea8c0c69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:06 AM Payas Relekar wrote: > Robert Weiner writes: > > > Thanks, Jean. We have started work on a note-taking subsystem for > > Hyperbole that will store UUIDs per note and will likely support > backlinks > > too. We are seeing if we can make it support Koutlines, Emacs Outlines, > > Org mode files and Markdown files, searching across all formats at the > same > > time. The default for creating new notes will likely be a personal > > Koutline file. > > Not Jean, but as someone using Org with Hyperbole, this is a great news! > Good to hear. Maybe you can provide early feedback when it hits the Hyperbole pre-release in the elpa-devel package archive (pre-releases of Hyperbole packaged up from the git master branch tip). > > > We welcome brief summaries of features you need for effective note taking > > in Emacs. We are not looking to do much with images or on mobile > devices, > > just focused on people who spend a lot of time in Emacs and want an > > easy-to-use notes system that does not require any external packages like > > SQLite. > > For my 2c: > > - Multiple small files vs single large file. > I currently have former, with org-roam taking care of finding, linking > and backlinking between files, making it a non-issue to easily build a > network of connected topics/thoughts > Yes. It will search over many files and even recursive directories of files. Org-roam has a good model for rapid searching, so we'll have to consider something similar. It might not be in the first release but will come by the second major release. > > - Daily notes > Every day gets its own note, only generated if visited. This allows > dumping the thoughts at that moment rather than first hunting the > correct node. Then they can be easily filtered into actual topic note, > or just be referenced via backlinks buffer > Each note will have an optional datetime stamp which will be on by default. If you care to make one note per day, you can do that. > > - sqlite might just be better, considering overhead of opening and > parsing hundreds-thousands of small files is non-negligible. > Yes, that is the reason for desiring some kind of database-backed indexing. > > - Refiling > Refile/move the subtree (in Org terms) can be easily moved to another > file and the links automatically point to new location. This means I > can always know rearranging stuff later is a possibility, and its less > cognitive burden to organize. > Yes. The idea is that you initially capture notes into a single default file and then can quickly refile them as needed. > > In short, the framework takes care of organization and makes retrieval > easy and all I have to worry about is the content. > Yes, I think we typically do this throughout Hyperbole, as it is very important to us. Thanks for the thoughts. -- rsw --0000000000006acdde05ea8c0c69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:06 AM Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /div>
Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks, Jean.=C2=A0 We have started work on a note-taking subsystem fo= r
> Hyperbole that will store UUIDs per note and will likely support backl= inks
> too.=C2=A0 We are seeing if we can make it support Koutlines, Emacs Ou= tlines,
> Org mode files and Markdown files, searching across all formats at the= same
> time.=C2=A0 The default for creating new notes will likely be a person= al
> Koutline file.

Not Jean, but as someone using Org with Hyperbole, this is a great news!

Good to hear.=C2=A0 Maybe you can provide early fe= edback when it hits the Hyperbole pre-release in the elpa-devel package arc= hive (pre-releases of Hyperbole packaged up from the git master branch tip)= .

> We welcome brief summaries of features you need for effective note tak= ing
> in Emacs.=C2=A0 We are not looking to do much with images or on mobile= devices,
> just focused on people who spend a lot of time in Emacs and want an > easy-to-use notes system that does not require any external packages l= ike
> SQLite.

For my 2c:

- Multiple small files vs single large file.
=C2=A0 I currently have former, with org-roam taking care of finding, linki= ng
=C2=A0 and backlinking between files, making it a non-issue to easily build= a
=C2=A0 network of connected topics/thoughts

=
Yes.= =C2=A0 It will search over many files and even recursive directories of fil= es.=C2=A0 Org-roam has a good model for rapid searching, so we'll have = to consider something similar.=C2=A0 It might not be in the first release b= ut will come by the second major release.

- Daily notes
=C2=A0 Every day gets its own note, only generated if visited. This allows<= br> =C2=A0 dumping the thoughts at that moment rather than first hunting the =C2=A0 correct node. Then they can be easily filtered into actual topic not= e,
=C2=A0 or just be referenced via backlinks buffer

=
Each note will have an optional datetime stamp which will be on by defaul= t.=C2=A0 If you care to make one note per day, you can do that.

- sqlite might just be better, considering overhead of opening and
=C2=A0 parsing hundreds-thousands of small files is non-negligible.

Yes, that is the reason for desiring some kind of datab= ase-backed indexing.

- Refiling
=C2=A0 Refile/move the subtree (in Org terms) can be easily moved to anothe= r
=C2=A0 file and the links automatically point to new location. This means I=
=C2=A0 can always know rearranging stuff later is a possibility, and its le= ss
=C2=A0 cognitive burden to organize.

Yes.=C2=A0 = The idea is that you initially capture notes into a single default file and= then can quickly refile them as needed.

In short, the framework takes care of organization and makes retrieval
easy and all I have to worry about is the content.
Yes, I think we typically do this throughout Hyperbole, as it is very im= portant to us.

Thanks for the thoughts.

-- rsw
--0000000000006acdde05ea8c0c69--