From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Hendy Subject: Re: converting people to Emacs and org-mode Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 17:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35732) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UPh04-0000IL-AT for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:26:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UPh02-0004Tx-Vx for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:26:48 -0400 Received: from mail-la0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f]:44490) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UPh02-0004Tp-OD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:26:46 -0400 Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id fj20so6878331lab.20 for ; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: 42 147 Cc: emacs-orgmode On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:10 AM, 42 147 wrote: > > Hello mailing list, > > This might be considered off-topic. > > The question is the title: have you been able to convert many people to > Emacs / org-mode? Are converts all programmers, or those versed in > programming? -- Or have you converted non-programmers, e.g., anyone who > edits text for a living? I work at a large company with a fairly skewed age distribution (to the upper end). Many just won't pick it up, but I definitely get some head turns from others. I had a manager see me taking notes at a meeting once and we went through the process of setting it up for him on his computer. Windows idiosyncrasies do make the process harder for really new users as it can be frustrating to both learn a completely new program with finger-wrenching keystrokes *and* to constantly troubleshoot the Windows-specific aspects of why that tutorial you just tried to follow is not reproducible. I've been meaning to make some tutorials trying to mimic real-life use-cases that might justify picking up Org-mode. Some ideas: - Walk through creation of a graph-heavy presentation in both PPT and Org-mode/Beamer - Present the case where you get sent a couple additional data points - Show the tedious nature of updating the Excel data, updating all plots, and copying/pasting into PPT - Show how if you update your csv you can simply re-export the Org document and have them included - Report writing - I have to write semi-annual reports on any projects - Word would require a lot of formatting stuff, assuming the data you want is copy/pastable from other documents - *Everything* is in Org-mode for me (daily notes, reports, and weekly team meeting presentations) - Show how I can easily copy/paste from Org docs into a report while simply changing minimal text (mostly alignment and :width args) - Notes/todo management (separate apps vs. having everything in one place) - Just came up today: project management. I think showing MS Project vs. Org + taskjuggler would be quite interesting for folks. If you're already tracking todos in Org, making a project management tool out of it is not that big of a step. I think tutorials like this might help the process. In a lot of instances, the initial interest gets hung up on "Wait, *what* is the program?" as they try to wrestle with the mono-space font looking program running. Making the sell, at least intuitively, might be a lot easier if one could show Org compared to real-life common alternative methods. The comfort folks have with their other methods is often based on historical reasons and the sunk-cost fallacy.[1] There wasn't a lot of reasoning that went into it -- it was simply taught as "the way" and so that's what was adopted. My company preaches Minitab as part of their Six Sigma/LEAN training. I didn't want to leave Org, so I literally taught myself R so I wouldn't have to be married to Minitab :) Oh, and to your actual question (sorry for the digression), I'm a Mechanical Engineer working in product development. I had one intro level Java class in college and am certainly *not* a programmer. I went on a quest for the perfect note-taking/todo manager at various points in my working career (a short ~5 years at this point) and learned Emacs specifically for Org-mode! I may be more geeky than average compared to colleagues... but if you have a piece of software that can get someone to learn Emacs just to use it... that's a win in my book :) John P.S. I was using TiddlyWiki and the modified version, TeamTasks (http://teamtasks.tiddlyspace.com) before and it took two attempts before I finally stuck with Org. [1] http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/