From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Hendy Subject: Re: Let's discuss citation and Org syntax Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 15:56:38 -0600 Message-ID: References: <878v38cylw.fsf@pank.eu> <87k3eiz0zw.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzCjX-0004LO-CC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 16:56:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzCjQ-000532-Ex for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-x22a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22a]:57922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzCjQ-00052p-2j for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 16:56:40 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id wp18so16233585obc.1 for ; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 13:56:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Joseph Vidal-Rosset Cc: emacs-orgmode list , Rasmus , Eric Schulte On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Joseph Vidal-Rosset wrote: > Hi John, hi everyone, > > Here are the headers of my org-file: > > #+OPTIONS: LaTeX:verbatim > #+LaTeX_CLASS: koma-article > #+LaTeX_CLASS_OPTIONS: [a4paper,twoside,twocolumn] > #+LaTeX_CLASS_OPTIONS: [captions=tableheading] > #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[AUTO]{inputenc} > #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{fitch} > #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{bussproofs} > #+LaTeX_CLASS: koma-article > #+LANGUAGE: en > #+LaTeX_HEADER: \usepackage[backend=biber,style=verbose]{biblatex} > #+LaTeX_HEADER: \bibliography{jvr-biblatex-references.bib} > #+LaTeX_HEADER: \usepackage{bussproofs} > #+LaTeX_HEADER: \usepackage{fitch} > #+LaTeX_HEADER: \usepackage{hyperref} > #+OPTIONS: tex:imagemagick > #+TITLE: a title > #+AUTHOR: Joseph Vidal-Rosset > > > I have a couple of questions: > > 1) Does biblatex works with ox-bibtex.el ? I suppose that it does not but > I can switch to bibtex. > > 2) I do not know the headers that I have exactly to add in this file. > Not to be redundant, but I still think what I posted below will be quite helpful before we get ahead of ourselves: #+begin_quote Can you post: - Minimal .org file - Reproducible .emacs with what you currently have setup to get things working - The matching minimal bibliography file - Perhaps the output you want (in LaTeX or whatever output language) #+end_quote - Minimal .org as in only the headers you need to make this work, no fancy options or custom classes. Just bare-bones what needs to be there to verify bibtex functionality. - Some text in the .org file that tries to call a bib entry. - A minimal .bib file with a single matching entry you try to call from the org file - The output file you hope Org is able to tangle together from you from the .org and .bib files. John > Best wishes, > > Jo. > > > 2014/1/3 John Hendy >> >> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Joseph Vidal-Rosset >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > Is there somewhere a documentation with a simple helpful example to >> > follow >> > from step to step in order to use ox-bibtex or bibeltex ? I got only a >> > message error : "bibtex2html failed" and I do not understand why. >> > >> > Reading this page, for example, >> > http://bowenli37.wordpress.com/tag/org-exp-bibtex/ >> > I understand that I must add #+LINK .. >> > >> > But nothing works... >> >> >> I think you need to post a minimal example with everything required. >> For those of us who have never used bibtex (me), it's not clear what >> you're trying to do and we (at least I) can't help. For example, >> googling "orgmode bibtex" produces links which don't seem to do the >> same thing, from my skimming: >> - >> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/114864/how-to-get-bibtex-to-work-with-org-mode-latex-export >> - http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-05/msg00791.html >> - http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-bibtex-api.html >> - http://blog.karssen.org/2013/08/22/using-bibtex-from-org-mode/ >> - >> http://tincman.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/research-paper-management-with-emacs-org-mode-and-reftex/ >> >> For example, only one of those (that I noted), mentions anything about >> #+LINK, so I'm thinking that what you are trying to do must be a >> subset of everything embodied by "Orgmode and bibtex" since some >> fairly complete other posts get by without mentioning using #+LINK. >> >> Can you post: >> - Minimal .org file >> - Reproducible .emacs with what you currently have setup to get things >> working >> - The matching minimal bibliography file >> - Perhaps the output you want (in LaTeX or whatever output language) >> >> Apologies if the above is self-explanatory and I'm playing the >> un-needed role of mailing list police. I've noticed a lot of questions >> recently without sufficient detail. Always posting with clear goals, >> files so others can reproduce, and example output you want saves >> others having to fill in the blanks. >> >> You'll also get a lot more help since those generous with their time >> can easily copy and paste some code into their own local Emacs setups >> and see if it works. That helps differentiate setup issues from syntax >> issues from usage issues, etc. >> >> >> >> John >> >> P.S. Also post what you actually *have* tried. This saves others >> having to re-try what you tried, since no one knows that "but nothing >> works" means concretely. There's a blog post link with a bunch of >> stuff in it, followed by "but nothing works." What, exactly, from that >> blog post did you try (as in, paste the code from the various >> categories above -- org file, .emacs, bib file -- for each thing >> attempted)? >> >> >> >> > >> > Thanks in advance for your help >> > >> > Jo. >> > >> > >> > >> > 2014/1/2 Joseph Vidal-Rosset >> >> >> >> Great ! Many thanks Eric. I see also that I have to forget gmail in >> >> order >> >> to definitely adopt gnus ! :) >> >> >> >> I will be back on the list to say thank you again , to all of you. >> >> >> >> Best wishes, >> >> >> >> Jo. >> >> >> >> >> >> 2014/1/2 Eric Schulte >> >>> >> >>> Take a look at ox-bibtex.el in contrib [1], which adds support for >> >>> bibtex citations. The commentary at the top of that file explains the >> >>> usage, but in brief, ox-bibtex adds cite: links which will export to >> >>> HTML, ASCII and LaTeX (using bibtex2html [2] for HTML export, and >> >>> pandoc >> >>> [3] for ASCII export). >> >>> >> >>> For example, I've used ox-bibtex to write this Org file [4], which >> >>> exports to this HTML [5], as well as LaTeX. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> >> >>> Joseph Vidal-Rosset writes: >> >>> >> >>> > Hi Rasmus, hi the list, >> >>> > >> >>> > Reading this thread I've understood that the question of html export >> >>> > of >> >>> > biblatex citations is still an open problem for org-mode developers, >> >>> > right >> >>> > ? >> >>> > >> >>> > Thanks to the online manual and the help of the list, I have >> >>> > succeeded >> >>> > to >> >>> > write a template of koma-article class which is correctly exported >> >>> > both >> >>> > in >> >>> > latex and in html. But I meet the problem of exporting into html >> >>> > footnotes >> >>> > and references. >> >>> > >> >>> > At the moment, what is the best i.e. the more convenient solution? >> >>> > >> >>> > My best wishes for this new year, >> >>> > >> >>> > Jo. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > 2013/5/21 Rasmus >> >>> > >> >>> >> Hi, >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Now that 8.0 has shipped let's talk bibliography support. This >> >>> >> follows directly upon the discussion around March[1]. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The essence of the thread was that some people agreed that it would >> >>> >> be >> >>> >> nice to have support for citation commands build into Org (I'll >> >>> >> summarize in the next post). But let me first restate my own take >> >>> >> on >> >>> >> the issue. IMO a nice format would be: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> (*) [KEYWORD PROPERTIES] >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I think we should allow for a more general approach than one just >> >>> >> for >> >>> >> citation and this is a good thing (IMO). >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The in-buffer display of (*) could be governed by >> >>> >> org-buffer-format-KEYWORD (similar to >> >>> >> gnus-user-format-function-LETTER) or just identity if no function >> >>> >> is >> >>> >> defined. Export could be handled by org-BACKEND-KEYWORD or >> >>> >> org-export-KEYWORD. With officially recognized KEYWORDs something >> >>> >> like citation could be a 'first-class citizen'. PROPERTIES could >> >>> >> be a >> >>> >> string like: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> optional-keyless-entry :prop1 one :prop2 two ... >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Perhaps, treatment of keyword, could even be handled by an >> >>> >> in-buffer Org Babel function in the spirit of e.g. reproducible >> >>> >> research (see below). >> >>> >> >> >>> >> This would be different from Org links in that (*) is more like a >> >>> >> functions that allows for (i) pretty and informative display in >> >>> >> buffer/export and (ii) easy user extension. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I think there are many compelling use-cases for such a framework. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> 1. Citation: Take the keyword citetext which should be an >> >>> >> 'official' >> >>> >> KEYWORD. So for instance we could have >> >>> >> >> >>> >> [citetext BIBTEX-KEY :prenote note, w/comma :postnote blah]. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> In buffers, via org-in-buffer-format-citetext, it would be >> >>> >> displayed as >> >>> >> >> >>> >> BIBTEX-KEY (note, w/comma, YEAR, blah) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> or something similar (depending to what extend bibtex.el would >> >>> >> be >> >>> >> leveraged; e.g. BIBTEX-KEY might show the author/editor key and >> >>> >> YEAR would also depend on parsing a bibtex file) (obviouesly, >> >>> >> there's some reference to a bibtex file somewhere). In LaTeX it >> >>> >> would be exported as >> >>> >> >> >>> >> \citetext[note,w/comma][blah]{BIBTEX-KEY} >> >>> >> >> >>> >> In html it might utilize some tool that understand bibtex >> >>> >> (there's >> >>> >> a link to such a tool in the next post). In ASCII it could >> >>> >> almost >> >>> >> use what would be displayed in the buffer. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> 2. MY-FUN: MY-FUN is some function that does something with some >> >>> >> properties, perhaps just a string (simple cases: [sc text] is >> >>> >> used >> >>> >> for small caps, or mayhaps [my-treat-dna-string DNA-STRING]). I >> >>> >> might use it in a single file that I want to send to people or I >> >>> >> might just use it in my notes. Currently it's implemented via >> >>> >> org-emphasis-alist or as a link. Changing emphases is a hacks, >> >>> >> and >> >>> >> they are hard to export with the now more robust Org syntax and >> >>> >> further permit little control over how they are displayed >> >>> >> in-buffer. Links are more flexible but lacks display control >> >>> >> and >> >>> >> becomes somewhat painful with many arguments[2]. Also, MY-FUN >> >>> >> doesn't take a 'description'. With (*) I could simply write >> >>> >> >> >>> >> [MY-FUN PROPERTIES]. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Perhaps, I could even define org-BACKEND-MY-FUN in a babel block >> >>> >> if it's only relevant to the current file. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> There's been some work and some discussion on this already, most >> >>> >> notably Aaron already supplied some patches towards this end[3], >> >>> >> but using a slightly different syntax more like the link syntax; >> >>> >> e.g. textcite above would look like >> >>> >> >> >>> >> [[textcite:bibtex-key&&pre%3Dfoo&&post%3Dbar][whatever]] >> >>> >> >> >>> >> where whatever is ignored. The state of the discussion is to some >> >>> >> extend summarized in the next post. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> It would love to hear whether other people find something like this >> >>> >> to >> >>> >> be a good idea? Would anyone find a use such a framework? Would >> >>> >> (*) >> >>> >> conflict with anyone's current usage of Org? Is (*) too ambitious >> >>> >> and >> >>> >> in terms of getting citation support? Is this is taking a musket >> >>> >> to >> >>> >> kill a butterfly? What are the the flaws in the above. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I'm not a good (lisp) programmer, but I think I have a month off >> >>> >> this >> >>> >> summer where I could work on something like the above. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Thanks for reading, >> >>> >> Rasmus >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Footnotes: >> >>> >> [1] http://mid.gmane.org/20130303070635.GA12112%40panahar >> >>> >> [2] my citation links often look like postnote;prenote without >> >>> >> showing the BIBTEX-KEY or citation format. >> >>> >> [2] here http://mid.gmane.org/87lia0s7wi.fsf%40bzg.ath.cx >> >>> >> and here http://mid.gmane.org/87wqthk7vj.fsf%40gmail.com. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> When in doubt, do it! >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Footnotes: >> >>> [1] >> >>> >> >>> http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=blob_plain;f=contrib/lisp/ox-bibtex.el;hb=HEAD >> >>> >> >>> [2] http://www.lri.fr/~filliatr/bibtex2html/ >> >>> >> >>> [3] http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ >> >>> >> >>> [4] >> >>> >> >>> https://github.com/eschulte/netgear-repair/blob/master/pub/netgear-repair.org >> >>> >> >>> [5] http://eschulte.github.io/netgear-repair/pub/netgear-repair.html >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Eric Schulte >> >>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte >> >>> PGP: 0x614CA05D >> >> >> >> >> > > >