From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Hendy Subject: Re: Way to replace normal tabular env with booktabs? Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:48:40 -0600 Message-ID: References: <0167BDBB-27A0-458E-8107-4A2217710BE7@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52d58f77ce80204b66acca7 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RljN4-0008V9-Aw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:48:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RljMx-0000b0-Cu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:48:50 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:60690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RljMx-0000aw-0g for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:48:43 -0500 Received: by bkuw5 with SMTP id w5so2827812bku.0 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:48:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0167BDBB-27A0-458E-8107-4A2217710BE7@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Carsten Dominik Cc: emacs-orgmode --bcaec52d58f77ce80204b66acca7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > On Jan 13, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Niels Giesen wrote: > > > There is a patch from me waiting to be incorporated into org mode that > lets one use booktabs as export for normal org tables. > > > > You can find it @ http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/1016/ > > Hi NIels, > > I am looking now at this patch, and maybe it would be better to implement > these three variables as one, holding a property or association list? > Makes it easily extendable. > > >From a pretty high-level user perspective (one who couldn't have written that patch), I would say that from a usability point of view something like: ,--- | org-export-latex-tables-format `--- With values of "plain/standard/default" or "booktabs" would be awesome. That is, unless there's situations where someone would want some combination of regular \hlines mixed with booktabs top and bottom rules? On a usage note, I was surprised that the patch causes automatic insertion of top and bottom rules even when the org table doesn't use ascii top/bottom rules. In fact, if you use "|-" to put ascii rules on an org chart using this patch, you get double rules. Just some input from playing with the package a bit. Thanks again, John > Equally important - it would be great if you could try to implement this > same change in the new exporter engine from Nicolas, to ensure that the new > exporter will not lag behind. > > Regards > > - Carsten > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Hendy wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > The Library of Babel comes with your Org-mode distribution. > > > > You'll find it at /contrib/babel/library-of-babel.org > > > > > > I guess you learn something new every day! > > > > In the org file, look for > > * Tables > > ** LaTeX Table Export > > > > There should be functions booktabs and booktabs-notes. > > > > One way to use booktabs is described here: > > > > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.html#sec-13-2 > > > > > > I'll check these out. Looked at the worg howto. Not a huge fan of the > method, especially with hiding my tables, but I'll give it a shot. I figure > there's got to be a simpler way; just change the first \hline -> \toprule > and the bottom one to \bottomrule; \midrules in between. > > > > Thanks again, > > John > > > > hth, > > Tom > > > > John Hendy writes: > > > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote: > > > > > >> Hi John, > > >> > > >> Agreed, booktabs makes good looking tables. > > >> > > >> Check out your Library of Babel. There should be a couple of > functions > > >> there that will help you go from Org mode to booktabs. > > >> > > >> > > > Haven't done much with babel other than writing code blocks. Do you > mean > > > this page? > > > --- http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/library-of-babel.html > > > > > > Thanks for the suggestion. Feeling a bit lost, but am happy to look > around > > > for something that seems similar. I have no elisp-fu, so it'll need to > be > > > pretty darn similar :) > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > >> hth, > > >> Tom > > >> > > >> John Hendy writes: > > >> > > >> > Greetings, > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on tables the > other > > >> > day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the > "Professional > > >> > tables" section. [1] [2] > > >> > > > >> > I really, really liked it's formatting, especially since one of my > column > > >> > headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package places the > \hlines > > >> > extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs., as the > > >> booktabs > > >> > package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for the table. I > > >> ended > > >> > up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block. > > >> > > > >> > Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be used? The > > >> > formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the > booktabs > > >> > package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule instead of > > >> \hlines. > > >> > In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines instead of > the > > >> > booktab specific lines, you'll get a "regular" tabular table. > > >> > > > >> > Any thoughts on this? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Best regards, > > >> > John > > >> > > > >> > ----- > > >> > [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Professional_tables > > >> > [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ > > >> > Greetings,I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on > tables > > >> the other day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the > > >> "Professional tables" section. [1] [2] > > >> > I really, really liked it's formatting, especially since one of > my > > >> column headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package places the > > >> \hlines extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs., > as the > > >> booktabs package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for the > table. > > >> I ended up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block. > > >> > Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be used? The > > >> formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the booktabs > > >> package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule instead of > \hlines. > > >> In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines instead of > the > > >> booktab specific lines, you'll get a "regular" tabular table. > > >> > Any thoughts on this?Best regards,John-----[1] > > >> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Professional_tables > > >> > [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Thomas S. Dye > > >> http://www.tsdye.com > > >> > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Thomas S. Dye tsd@tsdye.com> wrote: > > > Hi John, > > > > > > Agreed, booktabs makes good looking tables. > > > > > > Check out your Library of Babel. There should be a couple of > functions > > > there that will help you go from Org mode to booktabs. > > > Haven't done much with babel other than writing code blocks. Do > you mean this page?--- > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/library-of-babel.html > > > Thanks for the suggestion. Feeling a bit lost, but am happy to look > around for something that seems similar. I have no elisp-fu, so it'll > need to be pretty darn similar :) > > > John > > > hth, > > > Tom > > > > > > John Hendy writes: > > > > > >> Greetings, > > >> > > >> > > >> I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on tables the > other > > >> day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the "Professional > > >> tables" section. [1] [2] > > >> > > >> I really, really liked it's formatting, especially since one of > my column > > >> headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package places the > \hlines > > >> extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs., as the > booktabs > > >> package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for the table. I > ended > > >> up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block. > > >> > > >> Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be used? The > > >> formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the booktabs > > >> package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule instead of > \hlines. > > >> In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines instead of > the > > >> booktab specific lines, you'll get a "regular" tabular table. > > >> > > >> Any thoughts on this? > > >> > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> John > > >> > > >> ----- > > >> [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Professional_tables > > >> [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ > > >> Greetings,I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on > tables the other day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the > "Professional tables" section. [1] [2] > > >> I really, really liked it's formatting, especially since one of > my column headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package places the > \hlines extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs., as the > booktabs package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for the table. > I ended up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block. > > > > > >> Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be used? The > formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the booktabs > package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule instead of \hlines. > In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines instead of the > booktab specific lines, you'll get a "regular" tabular table. > > > > > >> Any thoughts on this?Best regards,John-----[1] > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Professional_tables > > >> [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ > > > > > > -- > > > Thomas S. Dye > > > http://www.tsdye.com > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas S. Dye > > http://www.tsdye.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://pft.github.com > > - Carsten > > > > --bcaec52d58f77ce80204b66acca7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Carsten Dominik= <carsten= .dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 13, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Niels Giesen wrote:

> There is a patch from me waiting to be incorporated into org mode that= lets one use booktabs as export for normal org tables.
>
> You can find it @ http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/1016/

Hi NIels,

I am looking now at this patch, and maybe it would be better to implement t= hese three variables as one, holding a property or association list? =C2=A0= Makes it easily extendable.


From a pretty high-level user perspect= ive (one who couldn't have written that patch), I would say that from a= usability point of view something like:

,---
| org-export-latex-tables-format
`---

With values of "plain/standard/default" or "booktabs"= ; would be awesome.

That is, unless there's si= tuations where someone would want some combination of regular \hlines mixed= with booktabs top and bottom rules?

On a usage note, I was surprised that the patch causes = automatic insertion of top and bottom rules even when the org table doesn&#= 39;t use ascii top/bottom rules. In fact, if you use "|-" to put = ascii rules on an org chart using this patch, you get double rules.

Just some input from playing with the package a bit.


Thanks again,
John
=C2=A0
Equally important - it would be great if you could try to implement this sa= me change in the new exporter engine from Nicolas, to ensure that the new e= xporter will not lag behind.

Regards

- Carsten

>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> The Library of Babel comes with your Org-mode distribution.
>
> You'll find it at /contrib/babel/library-of-babel.org
>
>
> I guess you learn something new every day!
>
> In the org file, look for
> * Tables
> ** LaTeX Table Export
>
> There should be functions booktabs and booktabs-notes.
>
> One way to use booktabs is described here:
>
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-late= x-export.html#sec-13-2
>
>
> I'll check these out. Looked at the worg howto. Not a huge fan of = the method, especially with hiding my tables, but I'll give it a shot. = I figure there's got to be a simpler way; just change the first \hline = -> \toprule and the bottom one to \bottomrule; \midrules in between.
>
> Thanks again,
> John
>
> hth,
> Tom
>
> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.co= m> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> Agreed, booktabs makes good looking tables.
> >>
> >> Check out your Library of Babel. =C2=A0There should =C2=A0be = a couple of functions
> >> there that will help you go from Org mode to booktabs.
> >>
> >>
> > Haven't done much with babel other than writing code blocks. = Do you mean
> > this page?
> > --- http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/= library-of-babel.html
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. Feeling a bit lost, but am happy to lo= ok around
> > for something that seems similar. I have no elisp-fu, so it'l= l need to be
> > pretty darn similar :)
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> hth,
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> John Hendy <jw.hendy= @gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > Greetings,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on = tables the other
> >> > day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the = "Professional
> >> > tables" section. [1] [2]
> >> >
> >> > I really, really liked it's formatting, especially s= ince one of my column
> >> > headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package pla= ces the \hlines
> >> > extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row v= s., as the
> >> booktabs
> >> > package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for = the table. I
> >> ended
> >> > up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block.<= br> > >> >
> >> > Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should b= e used? The
> >> > formatting is literally identical except for 1) includin= g the booktabs
> >> > package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule = instead of
> >> \hlines.
> >> > In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines= instead of the
> >> > booktab specific lines, you'll get a "regular&q= uot; tabular table.
> >> >
> >> > Any thoughts on this?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > -----
> >> > [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/= Tables#Professional_tables
> >> > [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/ma= cros/latex/contrib/booktabs/
> >> > Greetings,I was using wikibooks for some formatting assi= stance on tables
> >> the other day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in= the
> >> "Professional tables" section. [1] [2]
> >> > I really, really liked it&#39;s formatting, especial= ly since one of my
> >> column headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package p= laces the
> >> \hlines extremely close to the top and bottom of my header ro= w vs., as the
> >> booktabs package says, having extremely nice looking spacing = for the table.
> >> I ended up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex bloc= k.
> >> > Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should b= e used? The
> >> formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the= booktabs
> >> package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule inste= ad of \hlines.
> >> In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines inst= ead of the
> >> booktab specific lines, you&#39;ll get a "regular&qu= ot; tabular table.
> >> > Any thoughts on this?Best regards,John-----[1]
> >> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Pr= ofessional_tables
> >> > [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/ma= cros/latex/contrib/booktabs/
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas S. Dye
> >> http://www= .tsdye.com
> >>
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Thomas S. Dye <span dir=3D&qu= ot;ltr"><mailto:tsd@tsdye.com></span> wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Agreed, booktabs makes good looking tables.
> >
> > Check out your Library of Babel. =C2=A0There should =C2=A0be a co= uple of functions
> > there that will help you go from Org mode to booktabs.
> > Haven&#39;t done much with babel other than writing code bloc= ks. Do you mean this page?--- http://orgmode.org/worg/or= g-contrib/babel/library-of-babel.html
> > Thanks for the suggestion. Feeling a bit lost, but am happy to lo= ok around for something that seems similar. I have no elisp-fu, so it&#= 39;ll need to be pretty darn similar :)
> > John
> > hth,
> > Tom
> >
> > John Hendy <mailto:jw.he= ndy@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >>
> >> I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistance on table= s the other
> >> day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in the "= ;Professional
> >> tables" section. [1] [2]
> >>
> >> I really, really liked it&#39;s formatting, especially si= nce one of my column
> >> headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package places t= he \hlines
> >> extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs., a= s the booktabs
> >> package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for the t= able. I ended
> >> up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block.
> >>
> >> Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be use= d? The
> >> formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the= booktabs
> >> package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule inste= ad of \hlines.
> >> In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines inst= ead of the
> >> booktab specific lines, you&#39;ll get a "regular&qu= ot; tabular table.
> >>
> >> Any thoughts on this?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> John
> >>
> >> -----
> >> [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Table= s#Professional_tables
> >> [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/= latex/contrib/booktabs/
> >> Greetings,I was using wikibooks for some formatting assistanc= e on tables the other day and ran into mention of the booktabs package in t= he "Professional tables" section. [1] [2]
> >> I really, really liked it&#39;s formatting, especially si= nce one of my column headers was a fraction. The standard tabular package p= laces the \hlines extremely close to the top and bottom of my header row vs= ., as the booktabs package says, having extremely nice looking spacing for = the table. I ended up doing the table manually inside #+begin_latex block.<= br> > >
> >> Would there be any way to specify that booktabs should be use= d? The formatting is literally identical except for 1) including the bookta= bs package and 2) using \toprule, \midrule and \bottomrule instead of \hlin= es. In fact, even with booktabs included, if you use \hlines instead of the= booktab specific lines, you&#39;ll get a "regular" tabular t= able.
> >
> >> Any thoughts on this?Best regards,John-----[1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables#Professional_tables
> >> [2] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/= latex/contrib/booktabs/
> > <span class=3D"HOEnZb">
> > --
> > Thomas S. Dye
> > http://www.tsd= ye.com
> > </span>
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.co= m
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://pft.github.= com

- Carsten




--bcaec52d58f77ce80204b66acca7--