From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id UBSjAhe5xWPEUAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:52:39 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id YBGqAhe5xWNMAwEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:52:39 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ACC337F93 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHWSG-0002w2-JY; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:51:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHWSE-0002uT-Jd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:51:42 -0500 Received: from mail-yw1-x1134.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHWSD-0006u9-4h for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:51:42 -0500 Received: by mail-yw1-x1134.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-4d59d518505so226943077b3.1 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9fsWxIT8j86Sge2htP2/QnSvSO5hS9oxX0XxzW32q60=; b=Q1irI4HUjuS9wkLDoC3rTZqM8fLEQsOzp2SoAS0n5B9TxvvT8Z+5dwVO/n5Wh5INxU zpd0gJAOdcwGQErVQ8sOm3gPAR5ffVoHGPxeT3k+x917D9pJZUuMFyryvwHuIBwrRpt9 pk82e4IyPhDVH0BHXAmfG8teUC64iXsWiBz3NI6jG8UXGAuqvOAmrWJJXTKIJxwchcQJ TOCSeoYAniwApPpiDC2puHG5Jz4HwBtIT6DqcKFQ+/aRrT+9FPXlSFA9wj5RsAsGSM5t 0p5jaWqVif91ucfUdSnVQAPvo2dw9/qB4GfJgJL901y26K5+7rirsO3k8p8nzoTUh1t9 CUhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=9fsWxIT8j86Sge2htP2/QnSvSO5hS9oxX0XxzW32q60=; b=fX8Khwxnc0Lb2QUq8kF8GxEs56aCBDfEZNrCvjLEa2IFb2sae+QMqAM4UYK90FpqVJ /QOmRG7Pi22bG47TcMU2Y+2yJ57Hjoq7OcSDXc4p/tp4ceRzN6Kxgyz3sNc5Xy2Fibmc ikYi62CdwWl73nek8n5ydd7tAOJjUyDWQbyBu1JWmQQ25b8fbLMIrPr6BOqX5epVG/N7 G85/+28LavXA4Ka7jKP+LBU22o4sCBRKb8a9OS334bOxQV7N3MWXfiiyJNZB048Iyesf 0agQdlUiAQTzGZFVafKx9Ai4FE9KnSjH57OXBRGhNIbvwbqBDYVvwZNZ1F1AMdlZkbyQ AjaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqB+138EZetf5S5EWWrNV10EBtANYXb2qvkgNKuq0DSEJuB5iy1 iIjIBEMKj/abgoDBebYBRRnDWujkCqlwx7UvCZHVsWKt/Hw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXulKCI6w+OmoyZRhECib2P0rzUfOLpq38tUXroKavkABODrYsr3Ix3z6s97DfKxJaDgRSlElf+NixCbm5g5II4= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:dc41:0:b0:4f0:5d21:2bfb with SMTP id f62-20020a0ddc41000000b004f05d212bfbmr51131ywe.23.1673902298769; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:51:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86zgamtv6o.fsf@gmail.com> <87tu0t1i0c.fsf@localhost> <87mt6ilkyb.fsf@localhost> <63c5b564.170a0220.fcec8.41dd@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <63c5b564.170a0220.fcec8.41dd@mx.google.com> From: Tom Gillespie Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:51:27 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Tim Cross Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134; envelope-from=tgbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-x1134.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Q1irI4HU; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673902358; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YgsaKrtGU9VA5bCm4JNeoau2JbiNsjbsEY8Z/wCbpG3vTbLfNjn/IarvneZX9oMefX8HBh /gLl2JeWAgbDLmaVhA0CYJhS/FXhR0Wxh4UU+KdSJ4OT5QriRpkSBf56HEDt2SF4ubtHzG NGDWp7QTR3Hy4b4fv3IHfhht15RTTOPK7nTqSGdzAagnS7/sWx41HNDKKcelJuD2TAjhAG zRIQQJn1GuFOB1TFjqezqE9S3DoNTsXJLzpMqvedjpRav68tG7odRFjDU2nwSbrlI8CxkH hQSD0ikp3l+xXgQ1rKUp2gr1nJnItB5Pww/5rFTm52lWGVK0oeArnB+LHWZJrQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673902358; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=9fsWxIT8j86Sge2htP2/QnSvSO5hS9oxX0XxzW32q60=; b=nU6u2vciGcSacRLFhdslb3TowHHLMe1jJ/YCUts9xHycr8hAOAt5wSpCYzeNxjG8/Qr+9C XbPiboX866Krt9sSqf7PfAIPuAkEBJGnpvDWPJs3JWrMpGUJXCtfAOg0hMkNiA7Zv3TEIV VaS1xKEP4UUpEme9D3JQoeXPmIsclMz1yxm2TgBPwbGev1oiV+mL+TjJ/zQSxmm7+Ea6S1 Tiru4Uk1Jv2JQf9MO6bxFIL8q/jMykhHie8DmBAixGSCKsYQ85VsHe5+uVC0lfuRJfq7+i UPk5TyVIu9JdymC3tOS1HPx0pYs+Mvc8KcDHfdwoibBtGMGzLT/S9Q8AOMVaLA== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9ACC337F93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Q1irI4HU; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.28 X-Spam-Score: -6.28 X-TUID: Hzv1fLYpAclT > > As for years BC, <-0001-...> will be a breaking change. But I do not > > think that we need to really worry about this. Not unless we actually > > get feature request. What is the practical application? Using org as a format for writing about history and being able to reference dates in the past accurately and have the dates be first class entities that can be parsed and checked etc. The example in my head is a history professor who wants to write about e.g. the collapse of the Roman republic and not have to come up with their own time keeping system or force any one who wants to work with referenced dates to do a bunch of math to translate from a roman time system to a modern one. > Given that the stated approach is to leverage off OS facilities in this > area, it probably should also be noted that some OSs don't handle > historical dates, especially BC ones, at all well. For example, some OS > use a 32 bit number to represent the date+time and can really only > handle dates between approx 1900 and 2038 (or around there - cannot > remember specific range). So with respect to timestamps and time related > calculations, we are limited by the capabilities of the least capable > supported OS. I'm mostly concerned about the syntactic features where org already supports dates well outside the facilities of various operating systems. I don't think that it is wise or practical for org-mode code to use anything other than the os provided time keeping facilities right now, but it is important to enable people who might want to do so. Org as a format for documents has a wider range of use cases for dates and times than Org as a life organizer and planner. At the same time those wider use cases don't always need as much precision or ux considerations because I don't think anyone using org right now is going to be early or late to their meeting at [3023-01-16 Thu 12:00] (regardless of the timezone). But org does tell me that it will be a Thursday! Best, Tom