From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: [RFC] Change some defcustoms into defcont Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 12:26:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <871u3g5nwx.fsf@gmail.com> <87mwm33sv1.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45448) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYChH-0004Ds-NF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:27:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYCh9-0001fr-9U for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:26:51 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]:57762) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYCh9-0001fX-2T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:26:43 -0400 Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id cb5so3667139wib.13 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 03:26:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87mwm33sv1.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: Org Mode List On 21.10.2013, at 10:56, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Hello, > > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> I think this change breaks user setups. I don't know how many >> people do change these keywords, but I know some do, if >> only for localization purposes. I myself have modified the >> archive keyword in some cases, if I use this feature for a >> different purpose. > > I don't think it breaks their setup, since you can do: > > (setq org-deadline-string "SOMETHING:") Yes. But in particular the less well versed users will likely have used customize. > > Of course, if they change it with `custom-set-variables', they will have > to change it. > >> You probably want to do this to make Org syntax less fragile. > > Correct. > >> However, I think it can also be achieved by leaving these as defcustom >> and discouraging changes in the docstring with a standard sentence >> about about deprecation. > > That's exactly the point of the defconst: you can still modify the > variable, but it sends a strong message to the user. Also, it's not > about deprecation: code base should still rely on these variables. This is where I disagree. I think the Emacs implementation of defconst is broken, and retained in this way only for backward compatibility. If we still allow users to edit this in principle, I do not think we should make these variables defconst. If editing is not even depreciated, there is even less reason to make this change. How about we add a sentence like this: Changing this variable may cause compatibility problems with other users trying to edit your file in Emacs. > >> Your most important argument to me seems about efficiency of cashing. >> We can fix this by providing :set methods for the customize entries >> that will trigger global cache erasing, so that you do not need to >> programmatically check this all the time. > > I know, and I still have to do it for variables like > `org-todo-keywords', which are meant to be modified. > > My main concern is about core Org syntax. - Carsten