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References: <87im3qj092.fsf@iki.fi> <87mtt2jz4h.fsf@web.de> <87h7j9hu0l.fsf@web.de> Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 10:44:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h7j9hu0l.fsf@web.de> (Arne Babenhauserheide's message of "Tue, 11 May 2021 22:53:30 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (windows-nt) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [wTiw2CoT8Yc72uwASze/4J9Ftty2lElr] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6PR0202CA0067.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:3a::44) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <8235usgx3y.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from HP-Laptop.homepc (81.232.177.30) by AM6PR0202CA0067.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:3a::44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4108.25 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 12 May 2021 08:44:18 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 46 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 56b74fb7-fdf3-4d67-8c4e-08d9152221ac X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB5EUR03HT119: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: qIuLrhzrci2QSmrkiGloxv1cLbLcaggK7IA9o0J79YtoSpIpn83OlU65du3ay6Hr0maa8ycoJbQuVN7bxPYdYmF5L/MIIIboWOcgNQ8QIyTBooJFaaBPWd7OqKD2Z88jX8s81JDwh8oRNui5uiMmWi0kuqqFAOb/UPVtDXqvHxsPc9l8H7yUCdbIPHHhUrXWj5fvOCP6PFtSeDalsjJvjm7pY58PdMTVOygcEJyPUxoDFv04Crc0EgFmydkrTgejBpAtEc8/WAxz7v0AoD6L7NEH5GR7WCIrIiDhtRT97BSDBiiRKV84s199kBkyv42dxcEMq5K/T0Y/5KhsPLBTGx/cO2Q5wiCd3iXnyv70TOA5mfp0HERtHzRZCoYPkHuo08pZT+nuD4vKDh5pNZSAtQ== X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 1a5aou9gqkoOZ/QUjplqLQXwDFdwswFnJ2wSx3oHzfovUsDdKKGVO8VY0QcOCfgSWrlNz+ojlIdKmMhMu+3tjgwm3TXJ2j4qwTdLTtqOlnAu/MBs5VE6HUIIHr9K9sMBkJ9KA98JfMeFcy+XAF/Gfw== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 56b74fb7-fdf3-4d67-8c4e-08d9152221ac X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2021 08:44:19.2542 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB5EUR03FT011.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5EUR03HT119 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.72.48; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Christopher Dimech , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620810001; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=S0VhUlbPJCPTU2iMjogZN4G8sBGB0CEsa1hDFAe44ew=; b=ZAw6EwEtvKuo2yFSmiYod2JWVi9XPnw8JWxtdFnrTp7r682uNHYfgUKYSwpTNeh1H2XRy0 K4uEe3RVZd3abadeU2u5b+etoA23jhGmwQMrsonGGBBZ5u4k9ZK2wUXd15ANUBuZriqdFB +F/q7BQlYYcWVSJINi4jwpNmr2K2Oh6IcuK+Y7yskuuH7pQUVUziUw/kVdvv4mua9DlupI LoUncJp8vdkk6de+8B5DFTF+Lf7+s8sDJ0bWkH38meDd0rb2FWjtpodQSnZEdvkH+jVkdD nuzM+klfQyowrCFLxW/12MZoja0wIoB0gk+qqDtTCW3BNaaPnV7LZdqCQrXxTA== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620810001; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=Rspw6lFZ0L20NRRS9ULhVjdbBbD8PQHsflZoZZ+t8SCn9GeE4SynFKzlycmBSWupmVvtAr SIG/Q0trLLMLwLxqjiAMcYyT8FyXPOqrSYKhhzpUPeUTbe4Gi1bgrAqdbsUA2Aq24r+mjg ysTSVphN7fQEY6dXbKG15LU+DY8BaG4Rg7wmZksMCW2+iSx6zqiEuT0Hppon3+Nufa7YwG /iDLDQH0tb2JtF0npe84GolQjZ1ejjpy1bFk0yq4n9kawv40Rvh90Abd4sA6+4hS8hQ+8d SEyQK7BON6K2I3OwGcXJUxTR6kjNuxBrIrsg3emr45JWvd1PyQZUZnYZFFfdag== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=NdglB2am; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.15 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=NdglB2am; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=live.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D938126097 X-Spam-Score: -4.15 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: mKAJCjNJawJg "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> Christopher Dimech writes: >> >>> If org-mode wants to support ditaa, it is a requirement to inform the user how to >>> get the software and install it. Moving into into a separate repository without >>> appropriately telling the user introduces the problem that users will miss out >>> on free software that they would otherwise have used. Using org should not be made >>> more difficult than it already is. >>> >> Another problem I didn't mention in previous replay, is that user can >> have wrong (outdated) version of Java installed on his/her machine which >> might not be compatible with ditaa version org mode ships, which may >> introduce further questions and problems. IMO I think it is better to >> leave out 3rd party applications and let users install those on their >> own. > > The old version should just keep working. It requires a Java older than > Java 8, and Java 8 is available everywhere. I don't think that would be the case. Java is considered unsafe software so I wouldn't rely on older versions being pre-installed and avialable everywhere. > I would bundle the old version to keep old documents working (I do not > want org-mode to be volatile software[1] that breaks existing documents > with an update), but notify the user that a new version exists. Since you already have Java and ditaa installed on your computer, your older documents won't get broken. By the way, how difficult is to download one file from the internet (ditaa.jar) if you are an user?