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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Jarmo Hurri , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620954881; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=KJjw+XLdFRR4O7wWovlziUty/rKxRf0Wm5BumZK+rC4=; b=nW3OjNF2uJ5cOH3h9V4e8N7KxjUzUkbTvOH+DcDsUr8BKKpDV6mNRuEf/79y1RffXZRfMI L2ClfSrEJlnPawImeDK8o0gNtD2RAThGRuTMm1+tL2ny8wc29nFIF3NScIjkzo1mPSO3oO Anz0nnrGYJe2oG3WLPIwNuSZwjcWXdmXwsydx257OU3VmRcCAxmGDiolFPElk9t3mmshNx etPR4vWqUH+fxX4CVFRbk/iEVIswPfg6fLCseiWZQ5iD2WVzbSiYnT9dP1Jqu2BdSwCj/X i6TKEOn2r2CISFBXYFNQ/Far6iCHioE0GRhH68kO9XYRoZvxKBXd7V9fvyf3jw== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620954881; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=dUSEJWPhxW8OzLy0JKI+g86vf11Gik+iN0yKeRTr0R6NOOm2ZycCOpZk4L1RgSS04G1BPm oVqG50fyi4jyNv4oXnMbf/s3XOiWJbelEeJmpycbCnhhmdnYnD+wn7fhzRjbfmqdhF2qL9 4zXcJMiJqD067BP0vccq8T8JzHcEu4gHtwDmfkEgUQmjXNG+K53tPedMzc1iq7pX4gtr1/ VybHuuvIsEGsiA37qYMkXZyCnxSoCjsoc43mBCJMWAOMCkuoDtJc6WrN6HUtVHvS9D5d61 jKOZv6vnp+weC+X6Vt+u1OND9Bqcnan5aNIWr8mIF+wnLq0x3+fBGyXZ/oNyDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=REY1YU2D; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=live.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.15 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=REY1YU2D; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=live.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8A55018384 X-Spam-Score: -4.15 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: x7bKrexEsCBj "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> Jarmo Hurri writes: >> >>> Greetings. >>> >>> "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: >>> >>>> Arthur Miller writes: >>>> >>>>> By the way, how difficult is to download one file from the internet >>>>> (ditaa.jar) if you are an user? >>>> >>>> That=E2=80=99s not the point. The point is that every single user with= a ditaa >>>> block has to do it. >>>> >>>> Ask the other way round: What is the benefit of removing ditaa from >>>> org? If you want to force most current org-ditaa users to unbreak >>>> their setup after update, there should be a significant tangible >>>> benefit. >>> >>> I agree. >>> >>> One thing I like about org is that most things work out of the box. >> >> If bundled ditaa is not compatible with jre installed on users >> computer, or there is no jre installed, and user is not a programmer or >> used to Java, how many steps it adds to such a user to sort out why org >> does not work for him/her "out of the box"? Just to save some experience= d >> user an extra step, that probably does not even affect them since they >> already have java and ditaa on their computers. > > The difference is not about the difference between experienced or > beginner. The difference is that =E2=80=9Euse your package manager to get= Java=E2=80=9C > or =E2=80=9Eget openjdk=E2=80=9C is an operation that only uses standard = installation > processes. > > =E2=80=9EGet this jar-file from somewhere and drop it somewhere and then = change > this configuration to point to it=E2=80=9C is not a standard installation > action. > > If Java is missing, org can simply report =E2=80=9Eno java found, please = install > openjdk from https://adoptopenjdk.net/installation.html>=E2=80=9C and the user can ins= tall it > like any other software. So can org also say: "ditaa is missing, please install from the link ... " :-) > This is not the case with ditaa. Ditaa is no standard application with > installer/setup/=E2=80=A6, but a jar-file. Exactly, so it is enough to just download a single file and point your org to it with one `setq' in your init file. So it does not need a pacakge managmenet on os level. However, Org could also simply say: use another distro that has ditaa in it's repository, such as Arch Linuz (in AUR).