From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Filippo A. Salustri" Subject: Re: Org expert mode? Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:35:42 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87vczre1eb.fsf@altern.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68de24a46bbf7049e1e6855 Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45032 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PxdDe-0004I1-8x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:35:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PxdDc-0008Dt-6o for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:35:46 -0500 Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:34265) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PxdDb-0008DG-W4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:35:44 -0500 Received: by wyf19 with SMTP id 19so1545791wyf.0 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:35:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87vczre1eb.fsf@altern.org> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Bastien Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --0016e68de24a46bbf7049e1e6855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I wonder about the complexity associated with adding an expert mode. My area is design, and one of my pet peeves about all things designed is how they tend to increase in complexity for the sake of extending their scope, without much attention being paid to the brittleness that accumulates collaterally. Since complexity is a non-linear thing, adding even one time element can increase it, and brittleness, significantly. I think - and I would suggest - that it can all be done with documentation. That is, one can lay out doc so that the complex things just aren't staring one in the face. If the doc were properly designed, users just wouldn't know about the 'power' stuff and so wouldn't be prone to getting overwhelmed by it. And this keeps the code itself less complex. I even think this applies to the matter of more compact messaging. Just a thought. Cheers. Fil On 10 March 2011 05:05, Bastien wrote: > Hi all, > > Org tries to stay as simple/accessible as possible for newbie and as > complete/flexible as possible for power users. > > The documentation and the UI are central for this: the documentation > should promote core features, document complex ones, and give pointers > on how to hack Org -- it does that already IMO; the UI should give > access to core features and give hints on complex ones, so that the > user can learn more. > > I've just added the ability to run a custom function for bulk agenda > actions (thanks to Puneeth for the patch!) This is clearly for power > users -- or those who are willing to take the time to find functions > that we might document in Worg. > > So I naturally thought of something like an "Org Expert mode": when > turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features and > perhaps display more helpful messages on simple ones; when turned on, > Org would have a less verbose UI (think of the C-c C-e window, do we > really want to *read* it all the times?) and give access to all the > complex features. > > This is really just a call for ideas/comments -- I wonder if people > already came accross such an idea and and what they think. > > I'm myself not convinced: it's a good thing that Org doesn't need an > Expert mode so far, it means newbies are not confused by the UI, and > experts are not frustrated by it either. But I expect neat features > can emerge from the discussion. > > Thanks for your thoughts! > > -- > Bastien > > -- Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng. Mechanical and Industrial Engineering Ryerson University 350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON M5B 2K3, Canada Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749 Fax: 416/979-5265 Email: salustri@ryerson.ca http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/ --0016e68de24a46bbf7049e1e6855 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder about the complexity associated with adding an expert mode.
My= area is design, and one of my pet peeves about all things designed is how = they tend to increase in complexity for the sake of extending their scope, = without much attention being paid to the brittleness that accumulates colla= terally.
Since complexity is a non-linear thing, adding even one time element c= an increase it, and brittleness, significantly.

I = think - and I would suggest - that it can all be done with documentation. = =A0That is, one can lay out doc so that the complex things just aren't = staring one in the face. =A0If the doc were properly designed, users just w= ouldn't know about the 'power' stuff and so wouldn't be pro= ne to getting overwhelmed by it. =A0And this keeps the code itself less com= plex.

I even think this applies to the matter of more compact= messaging.

Just a thought.
Cheers.
Fil

On 10 March 2011 05:05, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
Hi all= ,

Org tries to stay as simple/accessible as possible for newbie and as
complete/flexible as possible for power users.

The documentation and the UI are central for this: the documentation
should promote core features, document complex ones, and give pointers
on how to hack Org -- it does that already IMO; the UI should give
access to core features and give hints on complex ones, so that the
user can learn more.

I've just added the ability to run a custom function for bulk agenda actions (thanks to Puneeth for the patch!) =A0This is clearly for power
users -- or those who are willing to take the time to find functions
that we might document in Worg.

So I naturally thought of something like an "Org Expert mode": wh= en
turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features and
perhaps display more helpful messages on simple ones; when turned on,
Org would have a less verbose UI (think of the C-c C-e window, do we
really want to *read* it all the times?) and give access to all the
complex features.

This is really just a call for ideas/comments -- I wonder if people
already came accross such an idea and and what they think.

I'm myself not convinced: it's a good thing that Org doesn't ne= ed an
Expert mode so far, it means newbies are not confused by the UI, and
experts are not frustrated by it either. =A0But I expect neat features
can emerge from the discussion.

Thanks for your thoughts!

--
=A0Bastien




--
Filippo A. Salus= tri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
Ryerson Univ= ersity
350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON
M5B 2K3, Canada
Tel: 416/979-5= 000 ext 7749
Fax: 416/979-5265
Email: salustri= @ryerson.ca
http://deseng= .ryerson.ca/~fil/
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